not as reliable/proven.

You would think that as a title sponsor, Garmin would have the authority to put their foot down over this.

It's not like the Vector is a bad product, and it's a flagship Garmin item.

 
in what sense did the team find that it is not reliable? like: pedal fails? no data? bad data?

This has got to be hurting the Vector product, when the sponsored team doesn't use the system.

I'd be surprised if 99% of potential Vector customers even know about this.

I'm a Vector owner, would class myself as pretty knowledgable, and had no idea until today.

For the record: Have never had any problems with my Vector

 
yeah there are several discussions about this that come up when you research garmin vector pedals, but i can't find any credible explanation as to what the actual reason is, just speculation that in some way it is not good enough. which intrigues me ... i want to know in what way specifically it isn't good enough.

The only thing that I can think of really is reliability after a crash.

I never bunch race (just TTs and Tris), so don't have that increased risk of a crash.
The pods are relatively fragile and exposed, when compared to something like a crank spider.

The weird part is they use the crappy pedals, just not the powermeter parts.

Not only are they not using them, they're paying out of their own pocket for SRMs.

This has been an issue for quite a while. Every single time it comes up, someone from Garmin or Slipstream will make some non sequitur PR statement that totally avoids the question - why aren't you using your flagship sponsor's product? They'll neither confirm that they've given up on Vectors, nor will they say definitively state that they're going to start using Vectors in the <insert name of future major stage race>. The excuse du jour is that due to the Cannondale-Garmin merger, they couldn't get the Vectors on the bikes in time for the Tour of California. Then the Giro rolls around and still no Vectors. It was the same thing last year - no Vectors during the Spring Classics, then I think Johan van Summeren actually had them for the TdF during one stage and then we never saw them again.

It's like when your wife buys you something for your birthday that you think is awful (like a loud tie or a pink dress shirt). You don't want to hurt her feelings but you really have no intention of wearing it. So you keep making excuses and hope she gets the message and never brings it up again.

So to answer your question - there's never been a definitive reason from the team because the team has never actually stated that they've given up on using them (even though all of their actions speak otherwise). I read somewhere that the mechanics hate having to recalibrate the pedals every time they remove and install them. I've never actually used Vectors so I can't comment on that from personal experience.

They are quite sensitive to installation and are not as consistent as SRM. On a team of 9 guys all it takes is one bad experience by one rider to sour the group.

Yup, what's suitable for a MAMIL is not suitable for the Protour.

Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine that a team with a full staff of dedicated mechanics that travels with the team and which has a full suite of tools, workspaces, etc would be able to manage consistent installations. As compared, with say, a product they are trying to sell to athletes who will need to remove and remount them every time they travel...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

While I don't pay attention to what a sponsored athlete get for free and uses, I absolutely pay attention to what they're willing to pay for in favour of the freebies.

Perhaps they're inconsistent or inaccurate for other reasons than installation. For example, inconsistent application of force to the pedals.

I see what you did there...

Extremely inconsistent power data unless torqued to 100% perfection. Lots of broken pods / etc.

We had a pro athlete win a stage at Tour of San Luis last year (Gaimon) and on one of the mountain stages, he'd be putting out ~7-8watts/kg consistently on the longer climbs. Even flowing along in the pack in the ~4-5watts/kg range, which is completely abnormal.

Heard this from many of their riders. But then I have a few athletes that use them, and never have issues.

The big thing with a powermeter is CONSISTENCY, not necessarily ACCURACY. If you're putting out 300watts for 60min, you want to have all your training rides and zones be consistent with that. Not having one day your Tempo Intervals at 275 or 325 watts.

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Carson Christen
Sport Scientist / Coach
Torden Multisport

 

ah this is making more sense, i've had problems with installation giving bad readings, i can see this being annoying in a team. if you don't get it torqued and the angles set right it reads low and erratic.

i'm quite curious about how it could read high though ... unless the crank size was wrong.

I really like my vectors and have taken the time to understand proper installation and am skeptical of people that say they are inconsistent. If you install them properly in my experience they are very consistent.

The reason I think that they are not being used by Garmin-Cannondale is because they would be a huge PIA for mechanics to work with.

Install pedals - use washers if needed and ensure they are centered (If they aren't and you torque the pedals you may crack the pods)
Torque to 34-40Nm ensuring pods don't turn into crank (They could break)
Get on bike and do 2-3 hard efforts to ensure the pods set (ie wont move in future rides)
Get off bike take out batteries for 10-15 seconds - put batteries back in
Get on bike and smoothly spin to 80-90 rpms to set installation angles
get off bike and do static calibration

I mean for a single person to do this once a month or so for their personal power meter isn't a big deal, but I can see a couple of mechanics trying to do this on several bikes daily being a nightmare.

Again, I really like and am impressed with my vectors and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone willing to take the time to learn how to use and install them properly.

Jeff

I'll agree with said poster. When the Vectors first came out, they sucked. The first vector I received *yes, first* didn't even work. The accelerometer in the actual left spindle was broken, and garmin refused to believe me that there was an issue with the actual spindle and my installation was in error. After 3 months and 3 free sets of pedal pods, they sent me an entirely new vector system.

Installation sucks, calibrating it sucks too since you need to find flat road that'll allow you to pedal smoothly. Once you get everything working though, I feel like they're the greatest thing since drop bar handlebars. Mine is accurate when I'm riding with other power meters and people of similar stature, they stay put, I can switch em to any bike I please, and I can use whatever crank I want to as well.


Also, garmin just released a super easy pedal pod for installation. http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/vector/

+1 to your experience.

That said, I did encounter a small problem yesterday: I was doing a maximal 15 s standing start-type effort on my trainer, and shifted during it. That apparently caused the chain to hit the connector on the right pedal (which, notably, had less clearance than recommened by Garmin) and knocked it out. The power data went awry, so I shut down my effort. I could feel something skipping in the drivetrain as I warmed down, so hopped off the bike expecting to find a twisted link or some other problem w/ the chain. Instead, I found that the connector was flopping loose, so plugged it back in and all was good again (after resetting the installation angles and re-zeroing, of course).

I have a friend that has very little clearance and has had the chain knock out his connector at speed (52-11) on rough roads, I suggested to him to wrap some black electrical tape around the connector and since then hasn't had an issue.

Given that SRM are the gold standard in power meters on the premium side of the market, and given there are far cheaper solutions than Vector, I am confused about your recommendation! :) (You are a far more patient man than I!) I am not skeptical of their unreliable data. Many users have compared Vector numbers to other meters attached to the same bike with the same problem. I have a friend who occasionally pushes "840watts" on our Saturday rides...whilst getting dropped! And when even the sponsored team doesn't use them, it seems pretty clear there is more going on than just installation/calibration headaches.

The steps you are willing to take sound like a heck of a PITA when other systems are either more reliable, cost less, and in many cases, both, and virtually all of them require less hassle! Unfortunately, Vector is another example of another half-baked product release from Garmin. They will get it right at some point......

Either I missed something or someone failed to mention there are Garmin pedals installed on the bike in the picture. I guess that would just be for regular use as pedals to fool the people that wouldn't recognize the SRM and ask about the Vectors, given what has been said about working with them.

What is being discussed here are the vector power meter pedals, not their standard non-power meter pedals. The power meters have little modules that hang down that are easily spotted.