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which of the 3 has the most cheating
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Did a TT today, with suprising amount of competiton in Merckx division. Unfortunately, there was equipment cheating where rules stated a no no.... TT aero helmets in modern merckx, but the most blantant of all: modern bike, aero suit, TT helmet in classic Merckcx. These guys beat me by a good 2 minutes, but even if they didnt still maybe a solid minute. All this for a guaranteed podium? The race announcer even tried to guilt shame them into not accepting the awards. Saying "so you used no aero gear at all?" as he called their names out. This got me to thinking, which of the 3 sports you see the most cheating? And yes you know my opinion on the carbon shoes, but its legally allowed - so I will let that pass (I just feel people cheat themselves)
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Yawn…..
https://road.cc/...ecord-set-301155?amp

They shouldn’t have let them start if they were against rules. Period.

Our regional TT champs they forced triathletes remove the BTA and BTS bottles. It was on the rule sheet.
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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I would opine that the problem is with the Merckx category. Where is the line for an aero helmet? Does a Vanquish or Evade count? How baggy does your jersey have to be (many racing jerseys today are skinsuit tight)? Short of making everyone ride a steel bike a wear a wool Molteni jersey, some equipment will be more areo than others; even if it's not full TT gear.

To your question: in tri cycling has the most cheating....because drafting.

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Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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All three

In search of the righteous life... we all fall down
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Yawn…..
https://road.cc/...ecord-set-301155?amp

They shouldn’t have let them start if they were against rules. Period.

Our regional TT champs they forced triathletes remove the BTA and BTS bottles. It was on the rule sheet.

or just switch them to another division after. Its just a simple webscorer app, I think that should be possible to do...
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Did a TT today, with suprising amount of competiton in Merckx division. Unfortunately, there was equipment cheating where rules stated a no no.... TT aero helmets in modern merckx, but the most blantant of all: modern bike, aero suit, TT helmet in classic Merckcx. These guys beat me by a good 2 minutes, but even if they didnt still maybe a solid minute. All this for a guaranteed podium? The race announcer even tried to guilt shame them into not accepting the awards. Saying "so you used no aero gear at all?" as he called their names out. This got me to thinking, which of the 3 sports you see the most cheating? And yes you know my opinion on the carbon shoes, but its legally allowed - so I will let that pass (I just feel people cheat themselves)

Looks like we share the same opinion on shoes.

Cycling is the only sport I can really think of major ways to cheat aside from doping. And it would win that category as well I’d say.
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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All my cycling jerseys are skinsuit tight .... maybe time to drop some weight :)
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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If there was a race announcer them I'm assuming this was a sanctioned event, run under the rules of the governing body wherever you are located (e.g. USA Cycling). If that is the case, they shouldn't have been allowed to start if their equipment/kit violated the rules for that race. Shame on the officials for not catching that.
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [bm] [ In reply to ]
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The one with the big tits.
Last edited by: McNulty: May 15, 23 5:44
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Did a TT today, with suprising amount of competition in Merckx division.

I have never heard this term before and I am intrigued!!!

Are we talking steel frame bikes with center-pull rim brakes, gum wall tires, and 2x5 (or 6) drivetrain with downtube shifters?

What would the running equivalent be? Short-shorts & tube socks?

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [bm] [ In reply to ]
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bm wrote:
If there was a race announcer them I'm assuming this was a sanctioned event, run under the rules of the governing body wherever you are located (e.g. USA Cycling). If that is the case, they shouldn't have been allowed to start if their equipment/kit violated the rules for that race. Shame on the officials for not catching that.

It is not USAC. It is a purely grassroots event run by the local cycling club, all volunteers.
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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The rules have to be kept simple for events like this, unless you want to be even *more* detailed to specify bikes that only could have been purchased in the 1970s. And, even Eddy Merckx was not opposed to finding tech advantages when he could.

Here's what's going on in the UK this year, with their road bike division: https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/pages/road-bikes

  • The road bike can possess drop or straight handlebars
  • No tri-bars, clip-on bars or Spinacci bars are allowed
  • No disc wheels
  • Both front & rear wheels must have at least 12 spokes each
  • The maximum rim depth allowed is 90mm

These are easy to understand and enforce guidelines. Given that aerobars offer the greatest aerodynamic gain, eliminating them will make a difference in both performance and, arguably, safety.


Helmets and clothing do matter, but legislating items such as these would be painful, unless a standard kit is required of all participants. We can't roll back time, but a one can create rules that would differentiate today's tech from something that resembles the conditions of an earlier period.


Heck, did anyone measure your sock height? (Totally kidding on the last one!)
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Did a TT today, with suprising amount of competition in Merckx division.


I have never heard this term before and I am intrigued!!!

Are we talking steel frame bikes with center-pull rim brakes, gum wall tires, and 2x5 (or 6) drivetrain with downtube shifters?

What would the running equivalent be? Short-shorts & tube socks?

Most of the TTs I've done have had this division, although the rules tend to vary. Some allow anything that is UCI mass-start legal, others get into specifics regarding frame material, tubing diameters, rim depth, spoke count, etc.

I'm guessing the race in question was the Fiesta Island TT, this is from their rules:

Merckx Classic:
60’s – 70’s road racing bicycles. What Eddy rode!
• Frame: Retro, round, small diameter, steel tubing (Columbus SL, SP, SLX etc.) Aluminum versions ok (if you must).
• Handlebars: Period, road, round aluminum of course. Cinelli, yes please. Aero road bars? Heck NO! don’t even ask.
• Wheelset: Original period, aluminum or accurate modern equivalent. Rim depth 12mm~. Tubular, (Clincher ok, if you must).
• Helmet: Must be worn. Must meet modern legal safety standards. Yes, we miss our leather hairnets. Absolutely NO aero road helmets of any kind.
• Clothing: Original, 100% Wool, period uniform preferred. Modern remakes of period uniform ok, even if not 100% wool(shame). Absolutely no skin suits of any kind allowed. If you had inclinations of even asking about skinsuits in this category, it’s not for you. (Shoes: Traditional cycling shoes. Think Detto Pietro’s! And no, just no, shoe covers of any kind including Belgian booties.
• Gearing: Smallest cog must have no fewer than 12 teeth. We remember and love our 12-17 corn cobbs! Fixed gear is OK! (Afterall, Eddy rode a fixed gear in the hour record). However, overall gear inches must not exceed: 113.88 gear inch rollout.



Merckx Open (aka Modern Merckx)
Any modern-day road bike
• USAC mass start legal bike
• wheelset depth Max is: 80mm
• No disc wheels
• No fixed gears
• No time trial specific helmets (aero road helmet is ok)
• No aero (bar) extensions of any kind.
• Aero road bars are allowed
• No fairings or UCI illegal equipment.
• No customizations
• Skinsuits are allowed
• Booties/Overshoes are allowed

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
bm wrote:
If there was a race announcer them I'm assuming this was a sanctioned event, run under the rules of the governing body wherever you are located (e.g. USA Cycling). If that is the case, they shouldn't have been allowed to start if their equipment/kit violated the rules for that race. Shame on the officials for not catching that.

It is not USAC. It is a purely grassroots event run by the local cycling club, all volunteers.

They mention usac on the site, especially if you want to race cat 3+. Maybe some of these efforts at this event can be used for qualifying or gaining points, but not official records
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
They mention usac on the site, especially if you want to race cat 3+. Maybe some of these efforts at this event can be used for qualifying or gaining points, but not official records

It is not USAC. They just suggest you follow your USAC category when signing up, that is all.

In USA Cycling you do not get any upgrade points for time trial, only mass start races. So even a USAC TT is useless for upgrades.

You win a Fiesta Island TT, you win a Fiesta Island TT. That is all.
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [trail] [ In reply to ]
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ahh ok. well you set a record at fiesta TT, you get $100 ;)
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
ahh ok. well you set a record at fiesta TT, you get $100 ;)

Got my hundy pinnedy to my wall. Though my record has since been demolished.
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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cutting the swim is the worst. happens all the time. ive seen people cut the last buoy because there was a strong current and we were swimming on the spot as old mate didn't want to put a burst in and get around the buoy so just gave up
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [Warbird] [ In reply to ]
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Warbird wrote:
RandMart wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Did a TT today, with suprising amount of competition in Merckx division.


I have never heard this term before and I am intrigued!!!

Are we talking steel frame bikes with center-pull rim brakes, gum wall tires, and 2x5 (or 6) drivetrain with downtube shifters?

What would the running equivalent be? Short-shorts & tube socks?


Most of the TTs I've done have had this division, although the rules tend to vary. Some allow anything that is UCI mass-start legal, others get into specifics regarding frame material, tubing diameters, rim depth, spoke count, etc.

I'm guessing the race in question was the Fiesta Island TT, this is from their rules:

Merckx Classic:
60’s – 70’s road racing bicycles. What Eddy rode!
• Frame: Retro, round, small diameter, steel tubing (Columbus SL, SP, SLX etc.) Aluminum versions ok (if you must).
• Handlebars: Period, road, round aluminum of course. Cinelli, yes please. Aero road bars? Heck NO! don’t even ask.
• Wheelset: Original period, aluminum or accurate modern equivalent. Rim depth 12mm~. Tubular, (Clincher ok, if you must).
• Helmet: Must be worn. Must meet modern legal safety standards. Yes, we miss our leather hairnets. Absolutely NO aero road helmets of any kind.
• Clothing: Original, 100% Wool, period uniform preferred. Modern remakes of period uniform ok, even if not 100% wool(shame). Absolutely no skin suits of any kind allowed. If you had inclinations of even asking about skinsuits in this category, it’s not for you. (Shoes: Traditional cycling shoes. Think Detto Pietro’s! And no, just no, shoe covers of any kind including Belgian booties.
• Gearing: Smallest cog must have no fewer than 12 teeth. We remember and love our 12-17 corn cobbs! Fixed gear is OK! (Afterall, Eddy rode a fixed gear in the hour record). However, overall gear inches must not exceed: 113.88 gear inch rollout.



Merckx Open (aka Modern Merckx)
Any modern-day road bike
• USAC mass start legal bike
• wheelset depth Max is: 80mm
• No disc wheels
• No fixed gears
• No time trial specific helmets (aero road helmet is ok)
• No aero (bar) extensions of any kind.
• Aero road bars are allowed
• No fairings or UCI illegal equipment.
• No customizations
• Skinsuits are allowed
• Booties/Overshoes are allowed

So the Merckx Open is basically a road bike TT. Some of the wording is open to interpretation, a lot of ostensibly "time trial specific helmets" are used for mass start track events, so technically not TT specific.

The Merckx classic is interesting for how one could game the rules. Some thoughts
-For "period round road handlebars" you could stretch the rules and use an old set of narrow Nitto track bars.
-Wheelset surely allows for modern tires if using clinchers, and the narrow depth high-spoke pushes it to a 650 set up if you could find one.
-Helmets are an obvious gain over Merckx beautifully slicked hair.
-Drivetrain is a huge efficiency boost over the 5/6 cog cassettes and busing chains. Run wild with that one.

Some big gains not explicitly banned:
-Body position via either narrow bars, inward levers, puppy paws, something to get you into a non UCI, non Merckx position
-Aero crankset
-Internal cabling
-Replace round spokes with bladed spokes, find the lowest spoke count wheels with 12mm rims
-*probably* a water bottle on the seat tube makes a lot of these old set ups faster by shielding the rear wheel
-Silicone bead between the tire and rim (old school aero thing, no idea if it actually works)
-Unless the course is hilly, a track bike is 100% going to be faster than a road bike. Add a front brake if you need
-Lastly, throw the wool jersey into the dryer on high for several hours.
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Re: which of the 3 has the most cheating [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
synthetic wrote:
ahh ok. well you set a record at fiesta TT, you get $100 ;)

Got my hundy pinnedy to my wall. Though my record has since been demolished.

Curious if you got pic of your riding set up ,the time, and what year it was done? It would be cool if they had a page showing progression of the record. Fyi current 40k record TT should be 45s slower, timer started a bit late. For 20k, The modern merckcx was broken with an insane 26:50 in this past event, faster than all males TT bikes! Olympian female overall winner with 25 min
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