Unless you want to constantly be babying your bike, stay with titanium.

One good scratch or ding on a carbon bike and your ride is compromised.

Titanium is forever (or four years), whichever comes first.

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Mr. Uncaptured External Costs

Fossil carbon is planetary poison.

Myth #242 - Ti doesn't break.

Myth #211 - Carbon is fragile.

On many (most???) carbon frames the outermost layer is non-structural. you can scratch it all you want. I've seen more broken Ti frames than carbon. Never seen a broken Litespeed / Merlin though. Ti is really dependent on the builder, much more so than carbon.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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if what is said is true, then why if a titanium frame is that much stronger and can weather more beatings than a carbon, is the demand for carbon frames so great because of the light weight factor?

would the fact that i have been riding a ti for the past four years have anything to do with my final decision?

First off your caliente is not Ti but rather Al... That said you will be very happy when you get yourself onto Ti.

At your size you are the perfect candidate for a Ti bike. Especially one with a large solid bottom bracket area such as a TiPhoon or Blade or even the new Saber. Incredible power transfer through the drive train.

As for the carbon fiber frenzy... I dont have a clue and cant speak for it's popularity... i have a Litespeed Tuscany road and QR TiPhoon TRI (both Ti) and absolutely love them. I actually find carbon some what "soft" and i am only 165-170.

Get yourself some Ti... you'll never go back.

Hope this helps.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Carbon strength is also dependent on the builder too. I've crumpled an aluminum frame and dented a steel frame (vs. car). Both times, my reynolds ouzo pro fork [all carbon] stayed true, with only a hairline crack barely visible.

I agree that Carbon can be made extremely strong, as my forks have shown me. But, the fact is when they fail, its usually unrepairable. For that, I'll take Ti over Carbon if... I ever win the lottery.

Probably the biggest reasons for carbon being popular among manufacturers is the cost of material and labor... carbon is much cheaper to produce and ti is very particular about how it is welded, so labor costs are much more... that said, both have great ride characteristics, strong, light and even durable... I myself have three ti bikes (all litespeed - my road is a vortex) and love the way ti rides on/off road... so really it comes down to what you are willing to spend on a frame and then what type of ride you like... I don't care so much for the way carbon rides, so that is why I go with ti and probably always will... so don't listen to what others tell you - just go test ride a bunch of different bikes and decide what feels right for you... it's like choosing a pair of skis or a set of golf clubs or a tennis racket or a car or even a home... if YOU don't like it, don't buy... you have to really really really like it, otherwise you'll be sorry later, right? If you wanted a pair of Atomic Sugar Daddy's and end up with some Salomon Guns, you won't be happy... if you wanted the Ping's and end up with the Calloways, you'll be wishing someone would kick you... anyways, my point is one is not necessarily better than the other(though there are those that would argue)... you have to decide for yourself what is best for you... good luck...

Ahh, another myth, Carbon cannot be repaired. Whether a carbon frame can be repaired is a very definite maybe. In some cases, depending on the nature of the break and the type of construction, a carbon frame can be repaired, esp tube and lug designs a la Colnago, Cervelo, Trek, etc. depending on the type of epoxy used. Monococque frames are more problematic, but I recall that Kestrel had some issues with one of their older series of frames (early 200 series perhaps) breaking at the BB / chainstay area as they were built too light in that region. They repaired those by wrapping additional layers of carbon around the area.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

That a Ti frame is stronger is a gross simplification. Carbon is much more difficult to properly engineer and manufacture from raw carbon than Ti is from tubes (unless you are talking about the shaped and manipulated tubes like what Litespeed is doing these days), manufacturers have only recently gotten to the point where the engineering has caught up to the promise.

Much of the perception about carbon frames being fragile is left over from the days when they actually were fragile. Remember Vitus. But Ti has had its share of super fragile machines. So has Aluminium. The advantage of Ti is that it can be made without a fragile finishing coat, scratches can be buffed out, etc. So it can be more travel-friendly. But if you pack the bike properly, this should never be an issue.

Carbon is more vulnerable to puncture wounds than Ti, because the fibres aren't designed to support that type of load. But really, when was the last time you saw a frame get punctured? MAYBE on a mountain bike, but road??

As to the strength argument, one of the most highly stressed area of a bike is the fork. Think about it, there is no triangulation fore-aft. If carbon was so fragile, why is a carbon fork pretty much standard equipment on bikes of any material?

That you have been riding Ti, Al, Steel, or paper mache for the last 4 years is irrelevant to your next purchase.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Carbon strength is also dependent on the builder too.

True.. I was thinking more of tube / lug types, where the tubes are wound by machine etc. As opposed to a guy holding a torch in one spot for a 1/4 second too long and ruining the weld.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

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Try a titanflex. (You're probably too big for a SoftRide.) Your body will love you for it. They reportedly last a hell of a long time.

If you want custom, try steel. A light steel frame can be as little as 3 lb for standard sizes, 3.5-4 for you. Steel lasts and lasts. The new steels are very light and very strong. The ride supposed to be better than Ti or Alu.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

<<Carbon is more vulnerable to puncture wounds than Ti, because the fibres aren't designed to support that type of load. But really, when was the last time you saw a frame get punctured? MAYBE on a mountain bike, but road?? >>

I won't buy a carbon frame until I can afford to replace it at anytime as it doesn't take much from someone elses chainring to puncture carbon. I can't imagine it happens often, but once could ruin a year's worth of riding on my budget.

I have seen 4 broken litespeeds in the last year, so they do break. These were all at the toptube near the headtube.

That didnt stop me from buying one myself recently, however.

"...why if a titanium frame is that much stronger and can weather more beatings than a carbon, is the demand for carbon frames so great..."

Marketing works and humans are irrational.

[reply]"...why if a titanium frame is that much stronger and can weather more beatings than a carbon, is the demand for carbon frames so great..."

Marketing works and humans are irrational.[/reply]

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that, and Martec.

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Josef
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blog

Huh?

"One good scratch or ding on a carbon bike and your ride is compromised."

This is one of the perpetually circulated absolute mis-truths about carbon. It is wrong.

It is as wrong as the parallel argument that "titanium is forever".

Here are our stats for the last eight weeks in our store:

Number of ti bikes returned with broken frames (either "abuse", accident or warranty): 6.

Number of carbon bikes returned with broken frames (either "abuse", accident or warranty): 0.

Number of aluminum bikes returned with broken frames (either "abuse", accident or warranty): 2.

Number of cro-moly bikes returned with broken frames (either "abuse", accident or warranty): 0.

That is an eight week snapshot. Taken over a year the numbers parallel that. The greatest number of failures we see- either warranty, wear and tear, abuse or accident is absolutely firstly 6/4 ti, then 3/2.5 ti.

The truth of the matter is we rarely see carbon bikes fail. Rarely.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I just copied this reply from another thread. I wrote this on here earlier today. It applies to this thread:

Thank you to JohnA.

He eloquently answered this eloquently in one sentence. Something I wasn't able to do.

My concern over this question is that it buys into the set of generalizations that suggests, "Aluminum rides like this.... Cro-moly rides like that.... Titanium rides like this.... Carbon fiber rides like that...."

Those are the statements of the local, quasi "know-it-all" who spews this inaccurate crap about materials.

Those generalizations are wrong.

You simply can't make blanket generalizations about materials. There are too many different designs and too many different individual materials that have wildly different ride characteristics.

Some carbon bikes ride stiff and you feel the bumps. Some carbon bikes have a soft, highly shock-absorptive ride. Same is true of the other three materials.

Generalizations about materials are generally inaccurate.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Thank you Tom, that is exactly what I was trying to say. Of course, no one listens to me since I am not "in the biz".

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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Numbers don't lie...

-Vlad

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-Vlad
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The best kind of pain is always self-inflicted...

I don't know about all monocoque carbon frames, but some certainly can be repaired. About 10 years ago on my Kestrel 4000 (the original monocoque, I believe) the seat tube cracked - about 6 inches long under the bottle cage. I took it to my LBS dealer, they sent it in, Kestrel fixed it (wrapped it with carbon and fired it in the oven as I recall) and painted the whole thing. Came back better than new and it didn't cost me a cent. Still have it today. Not sure if they would do that today.

I also will concur that you can not generalize about ride characteristics of a material. I have two carbon bikes - the 4000 and an old Lemond Maillout Jeune. (OCLV frame they bought from Trek - basically a 5200). They could not ride more differently. The Kestrel is a much harsher ride, but feels like a rocket under me. Feels like the rear wheel is gonna launch off the ground when I jump. The OCLV frame is very comfortable, but it feels like a tank. The most unresponsive, dead feeling bike I have ever ridden.

If you are considering an ELite it has to be aluminum, cause thats all they make. Mr. Greenfield does an excellent job with them though !

Hey, them's fightin words!!! I loved my Maillot Jaune (until I destroyed the rear derailluer hanger). Sent it back to Trek, they fixed it, then a couple of years later the chainstay cracked. Trek was kind enough to give me a new Trek OCLV frame under warranty (US Postal colours). A lifetime warranty is a wonderful thing.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Not knocking the bike. I know a lot of people with 5200's that love them and don't find it so sluggish as I do. I do like the bike. It's great for long group rides or even solo when I just want to go easy and not ride aero. Can ride it all day and feels great. But when I'm heading out with the roadie hammerhead types, I take my Merckx MX Leader - the frameset alone weighs over 6 pounds, but it still feels much quicker and lighter to me than the Lemond.

Steel it's real. Ugh!

Consider a Yaqui, too. I've never been on one, but Dan and others seem to really like them and their maker.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.