have you raced the bike course at LP?

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

There are "pros" and there are "pros".

Most pros are moderately talented weekend warriors. THe use of the term pro in triathlon is, for the most part, a big joke. If they had to make a living at the sport they'd be flat broke and starving.

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You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones

You are hearing a lot of whining because the 35 minute head start was a bunch of bs. Stop drinking the koolaid about how it made the pro race "fair." I like how you and a lot of other people think that only the fastest female swimmers take advantage of male AGers to draft off of. I always was under the impression that there actually are other AG men on the bike course after the top female pros come out of the water. What makes you think that a 57-minute female pro swimmer gets no benefit of a draft without a 35-minute head start? Your observation that "Women always get overshadowed in the press and on the race course" couldn't be further from the truth. What planet have you been on the past few years when LP was held? Heather Fuhr has been an absolute media darling there and, rightly so, receives by far more coverage than anyone else in the race. You make it sound like her past accomplishments were some kind of footnote and we needed to get it right this year. As far as turning pro, I a lot of people on this board very easily could. 3 top 10 finishes in local junker races is all it takes. What injuries are you talking about with Andrea and Desiree? It's funny that some people on this board just kind of speculated that they were hurt so now all of a sudden they were suffering from bad injuries. I think if just one of them slugged it out, much how other pros have done in past races, it would be no big deal. However, the fact that they both bagged it together and were laughing, talking and high-fiving it up, makes it odd to say the least. They usually may be tough as nails and great competitors but they weren't on Sunday. I'd say that Tony Delogne, with no prior Ironmen under his belt and going out in 2:18 on the bike, had to have been the toughest person out there. That took some set of balls.

"so why not showcase the best triathletes in the world"

The world champ wasnt there. Nor were many other big names.

"they are not immune to injuries and were setting an example"

if you are hurt, continuing to race is not setting a good example

"and most of them are paying entry fees, hotel, travel... and working just like you, just follwing there dreams. I know, i have a friend who is a very good pro and I know what he gets out of the sport."

I train with a no name pro and he gets homestays and comp entry to all Ironmans and most halfs. He does pay gas and food. Anyone that races pro that is not making a good living has a choice to not pursue this as a job. If someone wants to chase a dream, being poor is a risk they take. How did the showcase affect anyones race? Well, people tend to spend about 2k when its all said and done. For that price that race is about THEM. There is more to the triathlon population than those that post on slowtwitch. Most triathletes I know respect a real pros ability, but couldnt give a shit about "showcasing" them.

you might have some valid points, but regestering today and hiding behind some fake name lessons your arguement - be big and show who you are when making contentious (SP?) claims - you will be take more seriously

some may be whiners - your just scared

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

i know for a fact they they both had injuries.

and yeah Im sure you could turn pro, you dont even know what the qualifications are, check again big shot.

In any sport magazine race recap, there are always more pics of men and a larger mens race recap. Fact.

Top 10 at a race over 500 INCLUDING PROFESSIONALS -

that is the USAT rule for '05 - the WTC reviews your resume for consideration before allowing you to race pro.

And yes, they traveled to LP with the intent to walk a marathon, giving high fives and collecting $100,000 in appearance fees.

talk about drinking the kool aid.....

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"I do my best to slay" - Matt Pike

Reddy, here are the similar points I made on this topic on the pro woman walkathon thread:

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1. It allowed all pro women to compete on even footing. Traditionally the strong swimmers get penalized as the 63 min women end up spending 70 miles passing ~300 age group men and get a huge legal draft benefit

2. Pro women get to race unencumbered. No dealing with "dudes whose race effectively end in T1" who won't let them get by on the bike. For some reason, most of us guys have a huge mental issue with letting a girl get by. This gets in the way of their race

3. Pro women only get to key off each other...no using guys on the run course for "pacing"

4. Age group men can race in peace knowing that they are not inadvertantly blocking a pro woman or putting her into a drafting position. They can also swim peacefully knowing that they are not going to kick someone like Heather Fuhr in the face at the first turnaround buoy and potentially take a champion out of the race.

As for Andrea and Desiree, I passed both, walking at mile 12. They were pleasant and cheerful. I urged them to run, but instead the ladies shared the good karma and told me "go get em...you are looking strong". How cool is that ? Yes, I had to veer all of 2 ft off my line to pass them...big deal !

Finally pro women slots...they are what they are. The rules are set up front. Just accept them. If you want to go to Hawaii, you just need to train harder, eat better, sleep more, have good genetics and race faster.

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Dev

"You are hearing a lot of whining because the 35 minute head start was a bunch of b.s"

Did their headstart affect your race? I thought the headstart was pretty cool. They went at 6:25 while I was chilling with my support crew (Team MooseNuggets) and I didn't give them a second thought. the slower pros actually allowed me to bridge a gap to a lead group in the water that had to slow to navigate around them.

Then through some freakish bit of luck I was heading towards the out and back (Hazleton) in 3rd place (someone later told me from IronmanLive), but could'nt have cared less because I got to see all the women go by and know exactly where they were in their race.

If anything, i'd say the headstart was positive and fun, and I hope the men get it next year.

PS. Tony Bologne Francone Delogne is a moster. As my back went out, and the other top guys passed me, they all had one question--'is that guy for real?' I said no way, he's going way too fast. I guess I was right, he only brought his 2nd loop back in 2:25. Slacker.

Dude, you might have some good ponits in there, but there are things called paragraphs, and I can't read a 50 line essay without paragraphs.

Dev

Very good points - I'm not really against the head start at all

My point was simply - if you are going to make big assertations (sp?) put your name to it. You did it - cool

And that goes for more than just "youwhiners"

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

I agree, putting your name to this stuff accomplishes two things:

1. you are accountable for your statements

2. you think twice before slagging anyone in public since your name is attached to the comments

and though you post all day long, none of it ever is anything controversial, or something that maybe you think might offend someone. Nothing wrong with that, but its easy to post your name when you are kissing everyones ass. This forum would be pretty dull without some differing opinions and controversial topics.

"2. Pro women get to race unencumbered. No dealing with "dudes whose race effectively end in T1" who won't let them get by on the bike. For some reason, most of us guys have a huge mental issue with letting a girl get by. This gets in the way of their race "

I am not pro but i have that problem all the time. i ride steady and guys ( esp the 40-50 age group) can't stand to be passed so they sprint right back ahead of me and then slow down. it wears me out, I don't get it...

you don't get cause you don't have the balls ;-)

Hell, I am much younger that that and had to be sure you didnt pass me in Cincy

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

dude...I guess if am posting all day long, you are reading all day long. Maybe I type faster than you ? As for posting nothing controversial and kissing ass, I thought a bunch of you dudes hated the fact that the lady pros got a head start and you could not "race them" so I actually did think that what I was posting was in the minority.

Marisol, my friend Zoe Panchen 3rd in women's 40-44 has the same issue as you, but knows that by the finish line she will destroy most of the ego driven first loop bike wonderboys who seemingly cannot let women whip by early in the day :-)

I want it to be known that I will let a woman whip me early or late in the day...should I bring my handcuffs and blindfold?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

i know it feels good at the finish line but during the race it's frustratring.. It forces you to ride like a yo-yo. I wish those guys would just not care instead of making my life harder. or maybe i should just learn how to ride even faster, that way when I pass them, they have no shot at passing me again :-)

Our training from "man school" is hard to overcome. Please forgive us-we are a flawed gender.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

[reply]and guys ( esp the 40-50 age group) can't stand to be passed so they sprint right back ahead of me and then slow down. it wears me out, I don't get it...[/reply]

Marisol, it's not just 40-50 yo men and it happens further back in the pack too. All the time.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I just thought I would share that it is not just women who are subjected to the no pass scenario. I get it a lot, especially in longer races where I have the opportunity to overtake some of the fish on the bike. I guess they just can't let fat guy pass or overtake them. Doesn't really matter, they are going to pass me on the run anyway.

The frustrating part is that as you mentioned riding becomes a yo-yo style since they try to pass in return will, I am hoping unintentionally, slow down again. I have been in several situations where I have had to exert significant effort to get past an individual and stay past them so that I can return to my desired speed/effort without going back and forth.

It does not happen every race, but when it does, it is quite frustrating. It happened for over 4 hours at IMAZ with one individual in particular. Eventually I had to chuckle and let him pass me, wait, and then pass him for 10 - 15 minutes when he would pass again.

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Formally azclydesdale, back in Northeast Ohio.

What the heck is the point of this thread? I have read it twice and do not see the point.

I was with many of the lady pros and they were all really excited about the opportnity to have a race among themselves. That's good enough for me.

Michael, infinIT Nutrition

Dev, were you there and why didn't you came see me and Ashforth???? :)

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

Also in a crowded race you have to slow down when passed to get the mandatory three bike lengths. That's a lot of speeding up and slowing down.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man