I have heard they are used for training primarily, and if you look at the thread "lair,liar, pants on fire" you'll get some good insight into PC's and Watt training, and somewhere in there you may be able to find something of value. Me I found a good amount of humour.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1310547;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1310547

edit: someone beat me to it :)

Just search the forum for the word "Powercranks" and prepare to be entertained for hours.......

Some, who have adapted fully (if that's possible) have been racing on them. Best example would be Courtney Ogden at IM Canada last year (best bike split, and pretty good run too).

I would never use mine in a race, but I do 100% of my indoor training on them. I bought extra parts so I could also setup a bike for
outdoor. (Thanks Chad for the idea) I may give this a try after race season since my bike now is my weakest event. No matter what anyone else says, I think
they are WELL worth training on. Bottom line, folks train with one legged drills on the bike. If this did not help, whey do folks do it?
PC's let me do both legs at the same time, and ride.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I was caught on the bike by a guy racing on them on Saturday but caught him on the second run - wonder what Frank would make of that? :)

Biggest disadvantage to racing on them I could see was a never ending queue of people wanting you to explain them after the race - poor guy was besieged.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Would the pedal stroke that achieves flat bars on the Spinscan be analagous to what is trying to be acheived on the Powercranks? it seems as though the feel would be the same in both cases as both require smooth rotation and focus on upstroke and pull over the top...?????



"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken," RB

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lulu

nothing focuses the mind like a death sentence

Careful taking his opinion....he's willing to dump $5000 in wheels and another few hundred on dimpled tires! Anything is worth the money for him! ;-)

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

[reply]
Are powercranks intended purely as a training piece of equipment or do people actually race on them as well? Never tried them, but the concept seems right.[/reply]

Most people use them strictly for training. Some use them for racing. Our best racing result thus far was alreadymentioned, Courtney Ogden at IM Canada. Some race on them by mistake. Just heard about this. This last weekend, Brian Nelson (still a college student but several year PowerCranker) was in a criterium near Seattle and had a mechanical in the first few laps so got off and changed to his PowerCranks bike. He apparently got into a breakaway with the legendary Kenny Williams (another PowerCranker but he was on regular cranks) and the two were stayed away from the field and Brian barely lost to Kenny.

Anyhow, our current recommendation is that you should train on them as if you intended to race on them, whether you do or not.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

It is not quite the same. You can get a "flat" spinscan without unweighting on the backstroke. A flat spinscan means the top and bottom of the stroke are close to the down and up, so only changing the pulling up should make the spinscan worse. Spinscan is a measure of smoothness, not a measure of roundness or circles. PowerCrankers tend to learn to do top and bottom better also, tending to add about 10 points to their spinscan number.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I trained and raced on PCs exclusively for about two years after about 12 months of initial use. Then I did some personal tests last fall and found I could not generate the necessary rpm using PCs to ride as fast as I could on normal cranks. Running off the bike was faster, but only measured in seconds, whereas the difference between PCs and regular cranks was in minutes.
I’m not sure how this applies to longer distances that require lower output and lower rpm’s.
If you tend to lower rpm riding anyway, then I think you could race on them without any concern.
I still do about 50-60 percent of my training on PCs.
Chad

Which race did that happen? That sounds like a good race to read about! Seems like every crit I have ever seen, once someone falls out of the ead group it's next to impossible to hang in to the race, let alone finish 2nd!

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

I don't know the race but in the crits I have seen there is usually a free lap or two to accomodate equipment problems except until the end. This problem apparently happened very early in the race. So, someone has a problem they git it fixed then join the group again and don't have to lap back to catch up. I suspect that is what happened.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Ah yes, I've heard that as well. Luckily never had an equipment issue to deal with!

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

"Anyhow, our current recommendation is that you should train on them as if you intended to race on them, whether you do or not."

OK. I'm venturing into very dangerous territory by getting in a potential debate with Frank but I don't necessarily agree with this statement. I'd say it really depends on the individual. Frank says the IM bike is about power. I believe the IM bike is about power, aerodynamics and specificity. The last two are somewhat intertwined, of course, but I state them separately for a reason.

Here's the problem: Most people just cannot maintain the same aero position on PCs as they can on regular cranks. Hey, just take a look at Courtney's position on the bike at IMC. If you can, then great, you should have much less issues. However, if you can't, you're racing on regular cranks and you believe that aerodynamics/specificity play an important role in achieving the best possible time then I think you're better off preparing yourself to hold a more aerodynamic position (on regular cranks) in training well in advance of your race.

Thanks, Chris

[reply]
"[b]Anyhow, our current recommendation is that you should train on them as if you intended to race on them, whether you do or not.[/b]"

OK. I'm venturing into very dangerous territory by getting in a potential debate with Frank but I don't necessarily agree with this statement. I'd say it really depends on the individual. Frank says the IM bike is about power. I believe the IM bike is about power, aerodynamics and specificity. The last two are somewhat intertwined, of course, but I state them separately for a reason.

Here's the problem: Most people just cannot maintain the same aero position on PCs as they can on regular cranks. Hey, just take a look at Courtney's position on the bike at IMC. If you can, then great, you should have much less issues. However, if you can't, you're racing on regular cranks and you believe that aerodynamics/specificity play an important role in achieving the best possible time then I think you're better off preparing yourself to hold a more aerodynamic position (on regular cranks) in training well in advance of your race.

Thanks, Chris[/reply]

Courtney had only been on the cranks 10 months when he did IM Canada. He has subsequently told us he can now get much lower. It takes time for most to get low. He rode in the best position he could and as a result was able to generate substantially more power that made up for the "poor" aerodynamics.

If you can't ride PC's in that aero position you ride on your regular crank bike then you can't pedal in the PC fashion while in the aero position on your regular crank bike. So, you are going to lose power. It is a trade off. Only you can decide if you want to do it or not. Lots do what you suggest. That is not evidence it is the best choice.

Anyhow, everyone is different. You have to make the best decision you can based upon your use of them. I make my recommendations on what I think is best for the most people but each has to decide for themselves what they think is best for them. What ever you decide I hope you do well because I would never make a recommendation that someone do something that might slow them down. If you think you are faster racing on regular cranks in a more aero position, go for it.

Frank, not a scientist, Day

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

"If you can't ride PC's in that aero position you ride on your regular crank bike then you can't pedal in the PC fashion while in the aero position on your regular crank bike. So, you are going to lose power. It is a trade off. Only you can decide if you want to do it or not. Lots do what you suggest. That is not evidence it is the best choice."

In my case, I'm not finding this to be a true statement. Sure, if you compare my power on my racing bike in a more aggressive position the week after I've been doing all of my training on PCs in a less aggressive aero position then that's a true statement. However, this is exactly why I said you need to get on your racing bike in that more aggressive aero position well in advance of your race.

I would argue that Courtney might have done better if he would got off his PCs at least 6 weeks before his race and trained in a more aggressive race-specific aero position and raced on regular cranks. However, we'll never know...

Btw, yes, everyone's different but you made a general statement so you can't do that and then follow it up with, "Everyone's different..." That's called cheating. ;-)

Thanks, Chris

I really believe that most people, after they have made the basic adaption but before they have fully adapted would race faster on PowerCranks than on regular cranks. We have some conflicting anecdotal evidence, mostly in favor of this proposition but some against it. CDW is the one against, he used to race on PC's and now says he is faster on regular cranks.

It will be interesting to see how Courtney does at IMCDA this year (I think that is his next big race), which I think he intends to do again on PC's, and he will have another year under his belt (and a more aero position) and I think his injury is pretty well healed.

Another person on the "faster on PC's side" is Steve Fluet, who has been a long time PC'er but used to race on RotorCranks. He thought that was the best combination possible until he did a race last year on PC's and way exceeded his expectations over what he would have done on RC's. He has told us he is going to race on PC's this year. We will see how he does.

And, I have asked Joaquin to do some of his hill climbs on both cranks so we could get some power data to compare. If he were faster on regular cranks I might change my mind. I'll bet he would be faster on PC's. Although mountain ciimbing is not IM as aero is hardly important, that is all power.

Anyhow, every piece of data I get gets put into the computer an I am always open to revising my recommendations. I look forward to seeing you progress and I will compare you to others. Be sure to keep us and/or me informed.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I will always keep you informed of my progress as I document things pretty thoroughly. As you know, I do find good value in your product so it's certainly in my best interest to feed you data.

Thanks, Chris

Not every user has your altruistic view. Many are interested in keeping them quiet, seeing a competitive advantage the fewer people that are using them. :-)

Anyhow, I am somewhat disappointed you haven't had any blog updates since February I believe. Anyhow, looking forward to seeing you kick some butt this year. If you don't do as well as you hope for let me know and I will give you some suggestions as to how to change your training. :-)

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Hmmmm.... You're not viewing my blog correctly. There are 3 pages. Maybe you're only looking at page 1? I've had consistent updates up to present time. I actually posted one yesterday. If you have page 1 bookmarked then look toward the top and you'll see the link for the other 2 pages. Here's page 3:

http://www.triorganic.com/...osts&t=5&p=3

Thanks, Chris

[reply]Hmmmm.... You're not viewing my blog correctly. There are 3 pages. Maybe you're only looking at page 1? I've had consistent updates up to present time. I actually posted one yesterday. If you have page 1 bookmarked then look toward the top and you'll see the link for the other 2 pages. Here's page 3:

[url "http://www.triorganic.com/ccc.aspx?g=posts&t=5&p=3"]http://www.triorganic.com/ccc.aspx?g=posts&t=5&p=3[/url]

Thanks, Chris[/reply]

I guess if I was a scientist I would have been able to see that. :-)

Thanks

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks