I feel like the most suitable candidates are either Grand Rapids, Detroit area, or up north. Grand Rapids would be tough with two established races by Tris4Health including the MiTi Half/Full. WTC would probably be better off buying out MiTi than trying to establish their own.

Detroit, you may have troubles getting cooperation with the necessary road closures and water access. Bike route could be funny to stay on good quality roads. Belle Isle would be a good venue but the swim could be brutal and the isle is a choke point for spectating. One way on/off the Isle. Makes for a great sprint race but an IM might not be the best. You would for sure have to have at least part of the swim directly against current unless you swam from the isle to the mainland or something. Or maybe from Canada to US, might be interesting. First international race? Cooperation with maritime operations might also be a challenge. Upside is Detroit is beautiful and safe now, and the capacity is no problem. Downside is that people love to hate on Detroit without knowing what they are talking about.

Up north would be great. Traverse City airport is suitable, I agree with the other post that it is similar to Kona airport, which seems to handle the crowd. Or a drive from Grand Rapids is not bad, very good airport. Pretty much take your pick up there. Petoskey and Traverse City would be good choices due to the capacity. You could also do an inland lake swim, Cadillac would be good but the lodging would be an issue. Lots of other inland lakes but small towns equal no lodging. Lake Michigan is probably the best choice.

If someone with race directing experience puts something together, I will be fully on board to help make this happen. Depending on the location I would gladly serve on staff.

Just for fun, I wanted to see how far down the river one would get if you left the beach at Belle Isle beach. Turns out, you end up right at Chene Park, which could be a decent T1.



Of course, the this is downstream, and you'd be flying for a lot of that.

My inlaws live in TC. After a few times trying to ride I gave up. Just way too dangerous. Cars and bikers do not get along at all. I've had stuff thrown at me, buzzed many times, etc. TC is also the spot two years ago where I had to dive over a guardrail while I was running. A car came into the dirt shoulder and hit the guard rail. I just mountain bike up north now.

Steve Brown did good with Iceman up until 2012. He's lost control of the race now. It's grown faster than his ability to manage it. I've done the race 10+ years and vowed never to do it again after last year, especially with the price increase. However, I was given a free entry so it's one more year. Iceman has turned into the 'warrior dash' of mountain bike racing. The more serious mountain bike racers are starting to get turned off by the race. The race hasn't even sold out this year, which is shocking. Usually sells out in minutes in March. Still open as of two weeks ago.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I think the logistics of pulling this off in TC are pretty daunting for any RDs. Summertime in TC (or any up north town) is pretty much a shit show of people and traffic in all but the bumper seasons. The only reasonable time to do one I would think would be the week or two right after labor day. There isnt enough lodging for all the tourists plus several thousand ironman folk in peak season. Also in TC if you swam in the bay you either have the option of riding old mission, as Joel does for the TC tri or trying to cross 31 and head out of town for the main loops. That probably just wont happen in the summer. You could do two loops of the half course on old mission but thats a fair amount of out and backs. I think lelanau peninsula would be the only way to go. They used to run the cherry roubaix road race out that way. But I can't think of a great start venue with infrastructure and space to hold a full that Is on the water In the vicinity to TC. But Im not the most knowledgable person on that area. Any full Ironman venues that dont have a large hotel/conference center for transition?

I'm sure there's some added draw for a full Ironman race but I'll say in my observation it is a big challenge to get enough racers to travel up here to make it worthwhile. Growth has been fairly stagnent or down and frankly I think the market is oversaturated in MI for the number of tri folk we have. There was a half in petoskey several years ago. I think it lasted two years because no one showed up. Has the titanium full in GR grown? There is a great race In boyne city (olympic) and their numbers were down. The charlevoix tri was defunct this year. The new half in TC had ok numbers for a local race and I hope it grows next year. Call me part of the problem as I could support more local races than I do. But I think unless wtc/challenge/? Put one on it wouldnt draw the crowds necessary for a viable race. Plus given what I noted for seasons that would canabalize from wisconsin, muskoka, placid and cedar point.

Further north might be able to pull it off as rual access roads are easier to get to for the course. Charlevoix has very few lodging options as does Boyne. For a true legit ironman up here I think there are too many hurdles to jump unless someone had a lot of money to throw at it just because they wanted to see it happen. Call me the negative nancy in the group. That being said if it ever happened I'd be all over it.

That all being said if anyone seriously wanted to come up here and do a self supported Ironman I could set you up a course. If some of you are serious about a training camp I'd entertain the idea of hosting it. Low key, low budget.

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Ben McMurray
Northern Michigan Small Farm Venture ---> http://facebook.com/hillvalleymi [/size]

Sadly I don't believe this is possible because it's an international shipping lane. A year or two ago, some dude bet his buddies he could swim across the river (to no one's surprise: alcohol was involved) and he made it but got in BIG BIG trouble. The tris on Belle Isle (on the map posted above) hold the swim on the north end of the island, the U.S. side.

Interesting idea upthread about WTC buying MiTitanium, though. As far as travel logistics go, I think Grand Rapids is about as "rural" as you could get for an official ironman -- within a few hour's drive of the Detroit airport, urban area to support lots of tourists, etc. The drive from DTW to Charlevoix is still 4+ hours. If you're flying from, say, the west coast, that's a LONG day of traveling.

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http://mediocremultisport.blogspot.com

I see your farm is in Charlevoix. I spend quite a bit of time in Petoskey and would be interested in a training camp if you ever put something together. PM me if you want to discuss or need help. I signed up for IMOO (my first 140.6) and expect to spend a decent amount of time up north riding hills this summer!

I like that. Keeps too much activity off the island. Move the start point a little bit closer and you have a marina there that could be a good venue.

I've never had problems riding in TC and the surrounding areas, but I can certainly see it being the case. My in-laws live in Cadillac and my folks have a couple places closer to Bellaire.

The cost of Iceman doesn't bother me, but that's probably because I'm used to triathlon fees. I believe it's sold out now. I wonder if the new registration method affected the typically quick sell-out. The frantic "I need to sign up exactly at this time" thing was eliminated.

As far as routes in that area...there's always the R.A.T. course.

I agree with cost. I'm use to the triathlon cost as well. However, mountain bikers are notoriously cheap. I can't tell you how many of them bitched about the fee when I helped RD the State Games of MI mountain bike race.

It does appear Iceman is sold out. The vibe in the mountain bike community was very negative after last year. The weather was a little bit of it. People are tired of having to replace drive trains after a race. That lack of food and other amenities is starting to frustrate racers. Parking is a PIA. The Expo is blah (and over crowded). It use to be a 'must do' race for me. Now it's just 'meh'.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Oh I certainly understand the criticisms. And the weather last year was abysmal.

I grew up in Michigan and spent a lot of time up north. Now I'm living in Northwest Ohio. The expense and poor amenities/conditions are worth it just to get out on some trails!

But seriously, the parking situation sucks.

Have you done R.A.T.? I enjoyed it this year.

The cost of Iceman is nothing compared to the cost of bike repairs after that mud hole last year.

You want to see an Ironman Michigan in Traverse City you need to build on what is already there. That is the only way the city will be willing to do something. More people need to do the Endurance Evolution Half Iron next year and show the city that it is worth it.

I did MI Titanium and it was a great race, but the swim would have to be 4 laps for an IM.

A Traverse City IM would be interesting, as would a Mackinac IM, but Northern MI adds a few hours onto drives from SE Michigan, OH, IN, IL.

I think a IM Detroit would be awesome. Plenty of hotels and parking. Not too much traffic.
Start the swim under the bridge to Belle Isle, swim to Hart Plaza for T1.
Woodward Ave out to Pontiac and back is about 25 miles, so maybe loop around Belle Isle or something to make up the distance. Once the light rail is finished on Woodward, spectating would be awesome.
The run could follow the marathon route and go to Canada.

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This. The novelty of Iceman has worn off. It's like those stupid mud runs people do. The first time they think it's all cute to get muddy. Then they realize all the ruined clothes and laundry. Iceman is not cute anymore. I can deal with snow, cold and drizzly. I do not want to deal with $200+ in new bike parts, parking that sucks, crap food, etc. The only good thing for me is being in first three waves. I don't have to deal with kids/families eating all the athlete food. The first 7-8 years we use to hang out at the finish line. Now we just get to the car and get the fuck out of the camp ground.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Ummmmm the MiTi Swim and bike is only two laps

Yeah, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking. Evidently I got it in my head that I did a 1/2 there.

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lol it is all good. The run course this year would have been 4 laps this year (mumbles under his breath "stupid weather") but they could easily go back to the old course. The just shrank it to keep it more compact for a smaller event.

Full MiTi is 2 laps. Half is one lap. Nothing unusual there.

edit: Sorry my bad, I see you have already corrected yourself.