Jeff, as someone who had to stop racing longcourse tri's 5+ years ago because of hip problems, I'm totally stoked for this race. I can't run anymore, but the hip is fine for some epic hiking/climbing. This is exactly what I've wanted to do. I still do all the swimming and all the cycling just cuz I love the training and then leveraging the fitness for cycling trips in the NC mountains.

I can't make 2015, but I'm in for 2016 and will have the family has my sherpa's. Family trip to NH with some ziplining in Lincoln, NH and some climbing on the Kank.

I've done 6 IM distance races - four were WTC branded, two were not. I didn't interpret your post as slamming WTC race participants, but rather as a suggestion/proposal to try something different. I enjoy both the big WTC and fringe events and have done them for different reasons. The Triple T in the early years was more of a organized epic training weekend with fellow long course tri enthusiasts/friends (its more competitive these days). Loved it. Wasn't there for time or placing (thank goodness). IMWisconsin. Loved it. Was there to see how I stacked up against a strong field (and have fun...fun is always a goal). Different goals. Different expectations. Different races.

If this race is a GO for 2016, I foresee this an epic day all around. BTW, I'm ok with it if I need to look both ways before crossing a road, or stop briefly for a train.

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Tad

It took awhile, but I finally discovered that its not the destination that's important, but rather the journey.

The race sounds really interseting and I am intrigued, but where does the $290 figure come from with so much of the race being unsupported? Are all profits being sent to the charities?

Grassroots racing appeals to me (I love Wildman which uses the same parking lot at Wildcat just to "run" up a different mountain), but there isn't much grassroots about $290.

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team website: http://snappletriteam.com/

team blog: http://snappletriteam.com/?page_id=10

So 100 entries x $290 = $29,000 in fees. They have zero paying sponsors - doubt FastSpllts gives cash and Hoka is in-kind if anything. Not much value for sponsor at 100 entries.

Since race is mostly unsupported, minimal police costs, maybe some permits for Mt. Waashington, a shirt at $10, medal at $5....not much overhead. I'd hope $20,000 went to charity, but you'd never know.

Grass roots at 70.3 price point?

I believe all "profits" are going to two charities, but what exactly does that mean? Does the race director take a salary or a "fee" for organizing the event or does he donate his time. Does his staff donate their time or are they paid?

The profits are being split between two charities, one local and the other international. Jeff has posted a bit about the two organizations on his Get In Touch page.

http://www.s2striathlon.com/get-in-touch.html

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Personal Best Multisport Coaching
http://www.pbmcoaching.com

I think your race sounds great and if I hadn't moved from NY to OR I would definitely be doing it. Seems way easier than AZ Long course which I did on my last east coast vacation.
Maybe next year though, I have been up Mt. Washington 7 times before and have at least one more summit in me.

As far as bashing WTC, you are barking up the wrong tree on ST. This place is full of Mdot tattoo lemmings who get butthurt if anyone talks
bad about their cult.

I work for a non-profit and our races are supposed to make a profit to support our programs and members. Would be interesting to see the final donation checks to these two organizations post expenses and see what of the $29,000 makes it's way to them. Could be $5, $50, $500...all depends what the RD deems "race expenses" like his compensation to do this, but most hard $ items are pretty standard like food, shirts, medals, police, equipment, supplies, permits.

We have a Grand Prix series which is free to our Club members and each race cost money - we maybe make $1,000 in entry fees from the runners who pay $10 and are non-members. These races are low key (no shirt/medal) but fully timed, USATF certified, great food and with staff time not allocated, we still spend $10,000 per race for all costs (mainly police).

Would be good to see the economics of this race. As the CFO I have such a deeper understanding of the race world vs. being on the outside for years. They key is really sponsors and volumn.

Yes but again he wasn't bashing WTC event just making an observation and suggestion. He might have presented it a bit differently not to insult the natives but doubt many of those would have done his event any way.
I have done Mt. Washington as well and don't need an excuse to go to the beautiful White Mountains in the summer. I would love to do this race if I didn't already have my adventures planned for next year.
I wish him luck and love independent races.

The reason I pose the question - there was a local fundraiser here a few years back that enjoyed a very high level of community support because of the cause and the promise to donate all profits to a local charity. The thing blew up a bit when it was discovered that the charity only received a few hundred dollars. That was the only "profit" left after the woman who organized it gave herself and a few family members roughly $10,000 in compensation for their role in organizing and running the event. Is it legitimate for a director or CEO to pay themselves a salary? Maybe, since I don't think charges were filed, but all of the other people who donated time and money were not happy. They felt that they were duped by the promise that this was a fundraiser for a charity.

What is a bit misleading is this from the OP....

3. Non-profit races seem to treat the athletes way better. As a RD, none of this goes in my pocket, so the theory is, lavish the athletes as best you can so that they will come back next year. This has been the Pumpkinman motto for 7 years (my wife's race) and it has worked well. Wait to you see the food and beer.




Saying you are a "non-profit" race and being a real non-profit are two separate things. So spend almost all the money and give what little (or a lot) that is left to the charities. Unless we get to see the final P&L or they make a big news splash we will never know, but will have to take the OPs word that all is kosher.

Please! Are you serious? event HINT at given their binky a nipple twist and most Ironman Culties loose their freaking minds.

These people can't see it - they are like most New England sport team fans - one you drink the Kool-aid it is all done... And like most cults, it is almost impossible to get out... Some do... I did, on both counts. I used to be a diehard fan of a couple of the teams, both of which I no longer follow and being around their current crowds, find the current generation hypocritical and annoying - this coming from a former season ticket holder.

But I can tell you - after more than a few year removed you realize that the generations have not really changed, you just used to be "that guy" the one who annoys you now, the one who you think is like talking like with a brick wall and has their head so far up in homerism that they are dumber than even the most dullard or pink hats.

Now while in someways Jeff calls out Ironman, he really does not.

In fact reading, re-reading, and re-reading the post again and again, he really does not slam Ironman.. He mentions it in passing (though the title may seem a bit brash) though his post is really more about the individuals, and have they gotten so caught up in things that they really are loosing sight of what brought them in the first place. In fact this could have been posted in a hundred different ways - even down to when was the last time you ran, swam, or biked for a week and did not log the data?

I think it has the potential to be a pretty epic race - and far from the Mc-Cookie Cutter races you see out there.

Now whether that was the best strategy to promote a race? Dunno. I didn't find it offensive. I didn't find it slamming Ironman or WTC and I tend to be one of their biggest critics - That was pretty much cemented with the lying POS Ben Fertic.

I hope the race turns out well. Maybe the OP turned off some folks in the process. Then again, that is not necessarily a bad thing. Many folks will not like that there are not 3000 people there, or that there was not Mike Reilly calling out "You are a sea to summitman"

Hmmmm That does not roll off the tongue too well...

Ahhh...

"You are a seaman!"

LOL

Like you did not see that one coming.

Oh lordy! Stop me!

Ironman events are like Facebook. They make the average joe/jill feel as though they are important; and it does not require one to do anything really 'special' (like winning a world championship, singing for a sold out stadium, or winning a nobel prize). It allows them to be a star in whatever small way they can because it feels pretty dam good, and there are not too many of those other high accomplishments to go around. I think the way to make a race attractive to the masses is to make it more visible so that all those individuals can feel like they are the stars of the race (like having each person followed by their own personal drone, and have it wired to go live to facebook, or whatever social media is hot these days). So to address the question regarding brainwashing...it is not so much brain washing, as much as WTC providing a product which takes advantage of some hardwired biochemistry.

With that said, I think that Jeff is a great race director, and that STS will be an outstanding race. I was able to do one race Jeff put on as a team with my dad (who never raced before in his life). It was great to share the thrill of racing with my dad without having to say a single thing to him. Maybe that could be an angle to try, and I think that is what you are getting at with point #1. One way to address this further might be to offer a family rate at races...just cut down on the amenities which are offered (and offer then a la carte as we really dont need a shirt or swag bag for every member of our family; even if they are really cool). We have 6 in our family which precludes racing together due to cost.

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

interesting take comparing to facebook and biochemistry. good points and true

This is what I was doing when I was an RD at a race. Made the non must stuff optional. This way I cut down the costs and attracted more extended families. We really cut down the cost of relays. I am see a number of races do this now where things like medals are an extra cost. I tend to buy them since we use them to make shadow boxes for the races I do with my grandkids.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

stephenj wrote:. One way to address this further might be to offer a family rate at races...just cut down on the amenities which are offered (and offer then a la carte as we really dont need a shirt or swag bag for every member of our family; even if they are really cool). We have 6 in our family which precludes racing together due to cost.
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H2Ofun reply
Stephen J
This is what I was doing when I was an RD at a race. Made the non must stuff optional. This way I cut down the costs and attracted more extended families. We really cut down the cost of relays. I am see a number of races do this now where things like medals are an extra cost. I tend to buy them since we use them to make shadow boxes for the races I do with my grandkids.
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I understand were you guys are coming from but for most people an Ironman is not a local race, 70.3's are a different story. When you add up hotel, air fare, bike transport etc I don't see cutting a few $$$ off enety fees being that big a deal.

Now for a 70.3 what you guys are suggesting sounds good.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

My comments were not directed at IM. It was just a general reply supporting that for some races, depending on who they are trying to attract, giving options on what has to be purchased might
help expand races. Clearly, family relays are not a standard for IM events.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

My comments were not directed at IM. It was just a general reply supporting that for some races, depending on who they are trying to attract, giving options on what has to be purchased might
help expand races. Clearly, family relays are not a standard for IM events.
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Got it.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

I agree with some of the others that hinting at a herd like mentality for frequent WTC participants is a little uncool. I also agree with others in that your event sounds good. I'm about to decide on my first 140.6 event (for 2016, I've been out of the sport for 2 years now) and here in New Zealand, that means Ironman New Zealand, or it means Challenge Wanaka. I've done WTC 70.3 before, and had a good experience in general. However...an awful lot of people I know here in NZ are massive fans of the Challenge event for a number of reasons. Someone else mentioned family and supporter activities - this seems to be well catered for. Taupo is a nice place to spend the day too, though. Broadlands Road, which features strongly in IMNZ, is perhaps one of the most boring stretches of tarmac on God's Earth. The bike route in the south island event looks astounding, but can have brutal winds (IMNZ can offer that too). It's a difficult decision to make...I'm not totally hooked on someone calling me an "Ironman", but then Taupo is only 2 hours from where I live. Wanaka is a flight and/or a ferry and a long drive.

I think there's probably a lot of fun and good to be had on both sides, and one certainly isn't deriding the other. I'd be delighted to hear what anyone who's done both thinks too, without jacking the thread topic too heavily (I was about to start a new one then thought this might be a good place to jump in). Have a good day, all...

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This has become an interesting thread... Your race looks pretty cool and I would probably try it out if I was in that area at that time. I think the thread has brought up all the other things with the IM brand and I know people feel passionate one way or the other towards the brand for different reasons which is fair. I've done a handful of IM branded events, Rev3 events, and local events and they were all good in different ways. I personally think the courses on the local and Rev3 event (so sad Challenge dropped the WI course...) were awesome compared to the IM branded events I did in the midwest with the exception of IMWI. I think everyone has hit on most of my points but in any event here are my thoughts towards both:

IM brand
-lots of options that work for me without too much travel
-very well organized race
-crowded...
-some courses are meh

Local/other long course brands
-funds usually go to a good cause
-a more relaxed and fun atmosphere
-better courses from my experience
-support not usually as spot on as IM

I will continue to race both local and IM brand but am always open to trying any race! I have my eyes set to Norseman in a few years (if I can get in) which is definitely not an IM branded event :)

Anyway- good luck with your race!!

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Andy Mullen
Team Zoot