JasoninHalifax wrote:
Jason would be even faster coming off the walls into his break out if he worked that dolphin kick more. probably, but that shit HURTS!!!
True dat!!!!
Formerly TriBrad02
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Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
probably, but that shit HURTS!!!
True dat!!!!
Formerly TriBrad02
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [Tri-Banter]
[ In reply to ]
neither am i. you just apparently misinterpreted what i wrote, and trying to clarify it for you.
I know what Lochte's turns look like. He doesn't plant as wide as you seem to think he does, and I doublt he even pays much attention to the exact placement of his feet. They go where he is most comfortable. This whole side discussion started because you apparently think that you have to bring your knees so tight up to your chest to do a good flip turn that a pullbuoy will turn you into a soprano in the Vienna Boys Choir. I think enough counterexamples have been shown that illustrate that is not necessary for a world class turn, let alone a slightly-above-average-for-a-masters-AGer turn like mine.
Next time I'm in the pool, I'll stop mid turn and see exactly where my feet are planted. From the video I posted, you can't actually tell how far apart on the wall my feet are, and I honestly have never cared, so I don't know how far apart they are either. My guess is that there is some separation, but there may not be. I'm more concerned from a technical POV with eliminating that flip onto my side rather than straight over onto my back.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
I know what Lochte's turns look like. He doesn't plant as wide as you seem to think he does, and I doublt he even pays much attention to the exact placement of his feet. They go where he is most comfortable. This whole side discussion started because you apparently think that you have to bring your knees so tight up to your chest to do a good flip turn that a pullbuoy will turn you into a soprano in the Vienna Boys Choir. I think enough counterexamples have been shown that illustrate that is not necessary for a world class turn, let alone a slightly-above-average-for-a-masters-AGer turn like mine.
Next time I'm in the pool, I'll stop mid turn and see exactly where my feet are planted. From the video I posted, you can't actually tell how far apart on the wall my feet are, and I honestly have never cared, so I don't know how far apart they are either. My guess is that there is some separation, but there may not be. I'm more concerned from a technical POV with eliminating that flip onto my side rather than straight over onto my back.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
JasoninHalifax wrote:
neither am i. you just apparently misinterpreted what i wrote, and trying to clarify it for you. I know what Lochte's turns look like. He doesn't plant as wide as you seem to think he does, and I doublt he even pays much attention to the exact placement of his feet. They go where he is most comfortable. This whole side discussion started because you apparently think that you have to bring your knees so tight up to your chest to do a good flip turn that a pullbuoy will turn you into a soprano in the Vienna Boys Choir. I think enough counterexamples have been shown that illustrate that is not necessary for a world class turn, let alone a slightly-above-average-for-a-masters-AGer turn like mine.
Next time I'm in the pool, I'll stop mid turn and see exactly where my feet are planted. From the video I posted, you can't actually tell how far apart on the wall my feet are, and I honestly have never cared, so I don't know how far apart they are either. My guess is that there is some separation, but there may not be. I'm more concerned from a technical POV with eliminating that flip onto my side rather than straight over onto my back.
Tired. I do it too.
Formerly TriBrad02
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [Tri-Banter]
[ In reply to ]
Tri-Banter wrote:
Dude, I'm not attacking. I thought that posting a nice, slo-mo vid of a Lochte would be demonstrative of the conversation at hand RE: feet positioned apart, knees tucked in to his chest, and spring boarding/ bouncing off the wall. I'm fairly certain that the width of your feet on the wall is a red herring, but if someone can prove that its faster, I'll change. until then, I'll just chalk it up to personal preference.
Possible. I've yet to read a single resource that suggests that feet should be together while flipping nor have I heard it from a single coach. I have read many and heard it from many that the feet should be apart. This leads me to believe that there's some research out there to suggest that feet apart. I admit that I could be wrong at that and resources/ coaches are just regurgitating old school techniques.
One reason that many coaches might teach that is because, if you've ever watched kids who are relatively new to competitive swimming, they go in all kinds of directions when they push off the wall. planting wider gives more stability and directional control. I doubt that you actually generate more power.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
To further humiliate myself on this thread, I did 2 sets, 5x100, descending times, on the 2'. Times were:
1.45, 1.40, 1.38, 1.37, 1.34
1.39, 1.35, 1.35, 1.35, 1.34
My effort on the second set was much harder, even though my times were the same. Left feeling pretty good about myself after this, even though there were ladies going faster than me doing one-arm drills (with fins). they, of course were faster than me on their kick drills too. But I'll forget about that.
Thanks to you guys for responding to my questions. Been a very big help for me.
1.45, 1.40, 1.38, 1.37, 1.34
1.39, 1.35, 1.35, 1.35, 1.34
My effort on the second set was much harder, even though my times were the same. Left feeling pretty good about myself after this, even though there were ladies going faster than me doing one-arm drills (with fins). they, of course were faster than me on their kick drills too. But I'll forget about that.
Thanks to you guys for responding to my questions. Been a very big help for me.
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [mjpwooo]
[ In reply to ]
I did 5x(4x100) at lunch.
set 1 - free @1:30 (this was warmup - down to 1:14)
2 - kick @2:10 (to 1:35)
3 - pull w paddles @ 1:35 ( to 1:15)
4 - IM @1:45 (to 1:20)
5 - free @1:30 (to 1:12)
200 ez for 2200m total.
ETA - sometimes my feet were together (touching) on the wall. sometimes they weren't, maybe hip width. Like Lochte :)
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
set 1 - free @1:30 (this was warmup - down to 1:14)
2 - kick @2:10 (to 1:35)
3 - pull w paddles @ 1:35 ( to 1:15)
4 - IM @1:45 (to 1:20)
5 - free @1:30 (to 1:12)
200 ez for 2200m total.
ETA - sometimes my feet were together (touching) on the wall. sometimes they weren't, maybe hip width. Like Lochte :)
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by:
JasoninHalifax: Dec 16, 14 11:15
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
JasoninHalifax wrote:
ETA - sometimes my feet were together (touching) on the wall. sometimes they weren't, maybe hip width. Like Lochte :)Yes- I saw that...
Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [Tri-Banter]
[ In reply to ]
You were at my pool 2 hours ago? Creepy....
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
JasoninHalifax wrote:
You were at my pool 2 hours ago? Creepy....It won't be the first time someone's called me creepy. It's probably my stalking habit...
Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Tri-Banter wrote:
Dude, I'm not attacking. I thought that posting a nice, slo-mo vid of a Lochte would be demonstrative of the conversation at hand RE: feet positioned apart, knees tucked in to his chest, and spring boarding/ bouncing off the wall. I'm fairly certain that the width of your feet on the wall is a red herring, but if someone can prove that its faster, I'll change. until then, I'll just chalk it up to personal preference.
Possible. I've yet to read a single resource that suggests that feet should be together while flipping nor have I heard it from a single coach. I have read many and heard it from many that the feet should be apart. This leads me to believe that there's some research out there to suggest that feet apart. I admit that I could be wrong at that and resources/ coaches are just regurgitating old school techniques.
One reason that many coaches might teach that is because, if you've ever watched kids who are relatively new to competitive swimming, they go in all kinds of directions when they push off the wall. planting wider gives more stability and directional control. I doubt that you actually generate more power.
The way I was always taught flip turns, and this was reinforced over many years, was to plant your feet and push off as if you were doing a standing high jump on land. The concept is the same and you want to be in the position that will provide you the most power. If I ask you to jump as high as you can standing still, you will probably place your feet shoulder width apart (not right next to each other or wider than that) and you will bend your knees maybe 45-60 degrees (not bunched up into a ball) and then forecefully extend. I don't see what the advantage in sticking your feet together would be regardless of the equipment you're using.
Strava
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [sch340]
[ In reply to ]
my take is that you put them that wide for stability, not power. None of the videos or images posted on this thread show anyone, elite or otherwise, pushing off with their feet shoulder width apart. I suspect it's like the s-pull, what we might have been taught is different from what the best actually do.
If you push off with your feet at shoulder width, unless you have really narrow shoulders you are increasing the drag off the wall, which is the worst time to do so.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
If you push off with your feet at shoulder width, unless you have really narrow shoulders you are increasing the drag off the wall, which is the worst time to do so.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: Tell me what swimming to do!!!! [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
As a kid I was taught to keep the feet together but later was taught to flip with them wider. You are able to generate more rotation with the feet seperated.
___________________________________________
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
JasoninHalifax wrote:
20x100 with 20secs rest, descend 1-5. go.
Thank you. You just gave my swimming about 100% more focus & 50% more enjoyment:-)