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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Like, Monty remembers when breastrokers couldn't put their eyebrow line below the water. //


Or when backstrokers had to touch the wall with their hands, no dolphin kick off the wall in breast, different leans into the wall, and a few other small ones. But the biggie is still the underwater dolphin. That blows the suits, new pools, new lane lines, new blocks, and salt water out of the water. For awhile it went unchecked too, and you had races up to a 100 swam almost exclusively under water. Now it is just 15 meters from each wall, but that is still a huge difference from the old turn and burn technique.


And funny thing is that it was not a new rule, new gadget, or new suit that had to be invented. It was always there, just had to have someone think of it. Not sure who was the first, but it was Berkoff who made it famous i believe.


As to Sun Yang, of course he is a very talented guy. Just unfortunate that we do not really know how much so now. Was he a guy that would have still won the gold and set world records, or a guy that just barley makes the finals in meets. I guess he will be under a real microscope now, even more than he was. He is young, so we will see if he makes any improvements in his times, or he falls flat and races with the mere mortals now. He is certainly built to be a perfect distance swimmer, about as hydrodynamic as a body can get, and drugs did not do that..
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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so what do you really think of M. phelps... or the Brownlees perhaps.
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Good reminder that when - as with Rita Jeptoo (and Kenyan runners more generally) or Lance Armstrong - when you have a world class athlete (or group of athletes) that is just that much more dominant - as Sun Yang has been, that chalking it up to "it's genetics" and/or "it's his work ethic," that ought to be a huge red flag.

When you are talking about groups of athletes that are already all, to a certain extent, "freaks of nature," the idea that someone is just that much more of a freak is hard to stomach.

When you saw Sun Yang just crush the field in London or just mow down Ryan Cochrane at WC last year, it was like he was on a different level. Guess maybe he was...
Jeez, now you make me wonder about Katie Ledecky!
<Pan Pacific Championships> "On the meet's final day, Ledecky set her fifth world record of the year, lowering her record in the 1500-meter freestyle by nearly six seconds with at time of 15:28.36. Ledecky swam the second half of the race faster than the first, completing the final 800 meters in 8:14.11--faster than any other woman has completed a regular 800-meter race in a textile suit. Ledecky lapped three competitors in the final and finished 27.33 seconds ahead of silver medalist Boyle."

<JK!>

<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Good reminder that when - as with Rita Jeptoo (and Kenyan runners more generally) or Lance Armstrong - when you have a world class athlete (or group of athletes) that is just that much more dominant - as Sun Yang has been, that chalking it up to "it's genetics" and/or "it's his work ethic," that ought to be a huge red flag.

When you are talking about groups of athletes that are already all, to a certain extent, "freaks of nature," the idea that someone is just that much more of a freak is hard to stomach.

When you saw Sun Yang just crush the field in London or just mow down Ryan Cochrane at WC last year, it was like he was on a different level. Guess maybe he was...

Or Chrissie Wellington? It's got to be said, she was that dominant... and left at the peak of her powers (just like LA did after 7... admittedly he had a comeback later though).
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [scca_ita] [ In reply to ]
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PEDs don't get your stroke looking like Sun Yang's though. You have got to give him that. Efficiency at its finest.

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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Hard to know in all cases. Sometimes, it's a change in technology or technique. Like, who was the first guy to skate in a classic ski race? Interestingly, in spite of Dick Fosbury revolutionizing high jumping with his over-backwards technique, you still don't have a huge jump in progression.

With swimming, you of course had changes in suit technology that made a huge impact - and where the ramifications where will be felt for a long time, but you've also had huge stroke changes. Like, Monty remembers when breastrokers couldn't put their eyebrow line below the water.

I don't what particular progression this is to know if it could be some sort of technological leap that caused those leaps.

Bill Koch was the first to really skate ski on classic skis in competition. For years people had been taking a few skate strides changing tracks or on turns but no one really thought that you could just ditch the kick wax and do the entire race using skating stride AND be faster. From what I recall, Bill was experimenting crust skiing on frozen lakes in the spring in Vemont. At that time of year, during the day the snow turns to slush but overnight you can basically skate endless miles on the frozen slush on top of frozen lakes and farmer fields....you get a good tail wind and it's literally like kite boarding (we still go "crust cruising" around here in the spring....really is awesome). In any case, I remember reading an article about how Bill "discovered" that this technique could be faster...it was around 1985...like dolphin kick it was always there (certainly after fiber glass skis were invented) and has been used by downhill skiers forever to get between lift line ups and out of the start gate in any downhill ski race (downhill, Super G, GS, Slalom)....Bill just decided to try it out in a competition because there was no rule stopping it.
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [cloesch] [ In reply to ]
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Reports are coming out that he's used the medication since 2008, and unless there's a translation error, it's not the right medication for his self-described mild heart issue.
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I remember that rule change ... I was 10. At 14 we got the backstroke flipturn.

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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [lessthaneight] [ In reply to ]
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lessthaneight wrote:
PEDs don't get your stroke looking like Sun Yang's though. You have got to give him that. Efficiency at its finest.

THIS^^^ I've never seen anyone with such a super long stroke:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Hard to know in all cases. Sometimes, it's a change in technology or technique. Like, who was the first guy to skate in a classic ski race? Interestingly, in spite of Dick Fosbury revolutionizing high jumping with his over-backwards technique, you still don't have a huge jump in progression.

With swimming, you of course had changes in suit technology that made a huge impact - and where the ramifications where will be felt for a long time, but you've also had huge stroke changes. Like, Monty remembers when breastrokers couldn't put their eyebrow line below the water.

I don't what particular progression this is to know if it could be some sort of technological leap that caused those leaps.

I think Monty is old enough to remember when you had to do open turns when swimming that newfangled Australian Crawl..

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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe this drug was to counter act heart damage from other PED.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting point, logically correct!
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Re: China Delays Announcement of Sun Yang's Doping Ban [lessthaneight] [ In reply to ]
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lessthaneight wrote:
PEDs don't get your stroke looking like Sun Yang's though. You have got to give him that. Efficiency at its finest.

And it wasnt PEDs that made Bond's swing so sweet either. They're both POS.
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