This is what I did. Bought the kickr and signed up for TR almost a year ago. Was my first experience training with power. Got sort of comfortable looking at the power numbers, etc., and last month bought the Power2max crank PM to put on my TT bike for racing..

If you really want a Kickr, get the kickr. The advantage that the kickr and computrainer has over the use of trainers and a power meter is that it sets the resistance level for you. Just like the real world - when you have a hill or headwind, resistance goes up. That is what I like about this type of trainer. Virtual power is OK, but having used both, I prefer the "active" units let's say vs. virtual or passive unit.

But.... right now, I would buy a used computrainer for $600-$700. I think the pre-owned computrainers are selling at bargain prices. That is just my $.02.

you don't need anything, but the kickr is a nice trainer. The erg function is really nice and allows you to do certain types of intervals that are harder on a normal trainer, i.e. 30-30, tabata, short intervals like 5 secs, etc. It gives you a steady load for long intervals, which can be rough as there is no resting.

The flywheel is super heavy an the frame is very well built.

I like not having a rear wheel involved

You can't take it to a race for warming up unless you have a source of power

You don't have to spend kickr money to get the variable resistance / app controlled resistance trainer. You could get a BKool which is less expensive than the kickr. I will buy the BKool when it starts getting to cold out, I was thinking I would get the wahoo but the price of the BKool is much better for much of the same capability. As a side note, the BKool does have a power meter but it is based in the resistance unit which can read differently depending on the amount of force you put against the tire, that is why I call it more of a power estimator. It is more accurate than a trainerroad or similar setup where the computer is guessing your power depending on the terrain you are supposed to be doing. Being able to load say, Loveland Pass, (since you can upload GPX files to it) and do it in my living room is worth the money.

I've used pretty much all the setups you listed - fluid trainer + speed sensor, fluid trainer + Powertap powermeter, then Kickr. All with trainerroad.

While you do not NEED a Kickr to get solid bike workouts, there is no doubt in my mind that kickr makes planned power-based workouts much more convenient AND more objectively accurate. With a Kickr, I could absolutely increment FTP by say 1-3 watts per week, whereas that granularity is impossible no matter how hard you try without a erg-mode device to lock in the power.

Without the Kickr I still always managed to hit the correct average power for each interval (literally down to the watt in most cases) but it was an added mental load AND much more variable than the average suggested - my power per interval would def fluctuate +/- 10 watts in each direction throughout the whole interval. With the Kickr, it's rock solid, and in my experience, a lot more doable to maintain tough workouts like 95-98% threshold workouts of 1+hrs, since any extra wattage over FTP (even 5 watts) will quickly kill your ability to finish the workout.

It's a GREAT bike tool - I suspect if you can afford one but never get one, you willl always be thinking of upgrading, so you might as well get it now if you know you can handle the indoor training. You absolutely WILL use it and use it a lot if you aren't afraid of indoor training. And when experiment with incrementing by 1-2 watts per week, it gets exciting most of the time, to see that you've made a 10 watt jump in 5-6 weeks, and more.

The only drawback I really notice with the Kickr is that I get annoyed when I ride outdoors and have all these downhills, stoplights, and pace variability that makes it harder to peg workouts!

(At the same time, a treadmill does pretty much the same exact thing that a Kickr does, for running. Seriously - they're both erg mode devices that force you to run/bike a fixed pace. Sure, it's different because it's a bike, but it's otherwise the same exact concept, with the added benefit of being able to download the power numbers to Goldencheetah for TSS/FTP analysis.)

My $0.02 (and I've played with A LOT of trainers): ergometers are a nice luxury but they're not necessary. Also, a big benefit to training with power is pacing with power in a race. Only buying something like a kickr negates this benefit. IMO, the best choice for you would be to get something like a KK road machine and a power meter (powertap, quarq, power2max, etc). There are a lot of options coming out in the coming months so, if you don't have a race on the near horizon, you might be served well with a KK road machine and virtual power until you finally pull the trigger on a power meter (at which point you should compare virtual power to actual power from your power meter when you transition).

I will get a PM no matter what. Just like I will get a Tri bike no matter what. But right now winter is approaching, and both will not be useful to me for the next 6 months. My #1 weakness on the bike is me. Want to work on it as much as I can over the winter...

Just get the KICKR and never look back. If you are thinking about it now and trying to justify the price, you know you will end up going back to looking at the kickr after buying any other trainer.

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I don't understand this advice. For example, a powertap training wheel. Put a cover on it-boom instant disc. Can be used to pace events both long and short. Can be used to pace trainer rides as well. Virtual power is a great setup b/c it's repeatable, but over time your numbers will be inaccurate. Ideally, when looking at and evaluating historical data, wouldn't it be better if all the data was the same? Further, if you use TSS to manage loads, it's going to be harder (but not impossible) to keep the data straight as the "higher" FTP will result in distorted TSS scores. Plus you can pace your intervals on the road, which is a different skill due to terrain, wind, crappy pavement, etc..

I would go with:

1. Big fan
2. Ptap or similar
3. Used KK off clist with trainer road.
4. Golden cheetah (free analysis software)---you can make your own workouts, play sufferfest videos, etc.

If you think the KK is holding you back, then sell it next year and buy a kickr. But if a kickr will get you on the trainer, that more than any gizmo is going to bring improvement.

YMMV.

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owner: world's tightest psoas (TM)

I've used all 4 above, then went Kickr 1 year ago, and it really is no contest - Kickr is hands down better. I know some might make the argument for 'self-pacing' etc., but in reality that's a nonissue with the Kickr - if anything, you really learn what solid, steady power intervals feel like and it makes it even easier to dial in on race day at your target. I definitely dial into my targets better with the Kickr than my pre-Kickr days when riding outdoors, probably because the Kickr really trains me to hold a true, steady power.


I will agree that for optimal use, you really need both Kickr + an outdoor power measuring device like a powertap wheel, but the Kickr alone is still a fantastic tool.At least for me, it is MUCH better than the non-erg fluid trainer, despite the fact I still was pretty happy with my results with the fluid trainer+TR.

And yes, the Kickr absolutely gets you on the bike more, especially if you're consigned to indoors for large portions of winter (or in my case, most of the time due to early AM workouts.)

Completely agree, and I've used all the above too (tacx w/power competuer, tacx imagic, computrainer, KK rocknroll, powertap).
The kickr is by far the best. Not only due to its capabilities, but the fact that I was more motivated to use it than the other options.
A kurt is gonna set you back 400-500 depending on the model? And then you'll be wondering if you should have just bit the bullet and spent the extra 600 on the Wahoo.
OP has stated that he still needs a tri bike, wheels, etc. Buy what is going to help you now, the kickr or a computrainer. If the extra 600 puts you in the poor house, well, maybe put off buying the aero wheels a bit longer, as the kickr will give you more benefit than any wheelset.
With regards to pacing on the road, comparing ftp values, etc., that will be far enough in the future that he will probably be in a position to then buy a separate power meter for the bike.

And, if buying the computrainer, find a used one. They are about 1600-1700 new. The used ones usually go for about 700 and work well. But I'd still go with Kickr first.

We have a lot of kickr fans here, surprised it turned out this way. Had expected more KK fans.

I think kickr wins over used computrainer, I am all about the open software (plus I can code)

Well, to be fair, the discussion is really more about 'erg' style trainers vs 'mag/fluid' trainers. Naturally, if you can afford it, folks would recommend the erg trainer.
If you were asking for opinions about just mag/fluid trainers, the Kurt would likely be one of the most popular.

I've asked myself the same questions and all I can come up with is you shouldn't and you aren't.

To all the erg fans I admit it; I don't get the advantage of erg mode. I use a normal mag trainer, bikes that have their own power meters (2 PTs and a Quarq), and Trainer Road. TR made indoor riding so much more enjoyable and I've only been using it 1 year. If the interval is at XXX watts then I stay at XXX watts if I can but there are times when I can't so I have no choice but to back off. I don't just ride fewer watts than prescribed because I'm feeling lazy. I physically cannot do it so I have to alter the workout. Having erg mode wouldn't suddenly make my legs able to hit the numbers. I have sweated, cussed, and clawed my way to being within 5 watts of my target and those are some of the hardest workouts I do all year. I don't want erg mode suddenly shutting the whole ride down because I'm 1 watt off (as I understand it does, correct me if I'm wrong).

Full disclosure- I have never ridden a Kickr but I have ridden a Computrainer many times and besides not thinking erg mode is anything special I also don't get the "it feels more like the road" argument I've heard from CT owners. It all feels fake to me and I don't care because I don't expect it to feel like the road.

On the tire issue- I have never, in 15 years of riding an indoor trainer, used anything other than an old tire that had too many cuts to continue using on the road. I've never had one explode like I've heard from CT owners and I've ridden them until they're squared off and shiny. You don't need a special trainer tire.

If I were you, on a budget, I'd get a used PowerTap for your road bike to ride indoors this winter, a normal fluid or mag trainer, and a Trainer Road subscription. Then when you get your TT bike get a crank-based PM for that so you can have complete wheel freedom on race day.

No powertap ;) I like the powertap, but I want flo 60/90 or such down the road, and I can't flo 90 my powertap. More likely will do a stages or one of the new 1 side power meters for $500 being advertised..

I just said PT because it's the cheapest option and it sounded like you were on a budget. If I had it to do over again and had the money (didn't at the time) I would go all crank-based.

You can very easily dial down the intensity of the Kickr in ERG mode while using Trainerroad. I must admit to doing so during last year's Tour de Sufferlandia. Speaking of the Tour de Sufferlandia, I had a blast doing the Tour de Sufferlandia on my Kickr and with Trainerroad. It was the highlight of my winter training. Well worth it.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

How easy (or difficult) is it to set up Kickr technology (pairing with I phone etc.)? I know CT can be a pain for those of us that are challenged technologically.

Well everyone is on a budget right ;) I am not a charity worker with my greenbacks. If I can do the same thing for $500 less, clearly I would. Now if the thing for $500 is 1% better.. then its up for debate ;)

With the up/down percentage arrows? That's great but if that's possible then how is erg mode an advantage? I thought the great thing about it was that you are forced to make the required power or it shuts you down. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

I have the PT on my road bike which I ride on the trainer and some outside but I don't race on it so I don't care what wheels are on it. $350 or so for a used PT (quick eBay scan) is pretty tempting for a bike with no wheel constraints. Definitely go crank based for your TT bike so you can use your Flos.

I shoot for 100% while on the Kickr, but when you are in day 5 or 6 of the tour of sufferlandia it's good to know that you can take it down a point or two if your struggling. Come back to my with your absolutism in January.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

I don't use the up/down arrows much , but there absolutely are days where you overestimate how powerful you are, and you're just too beat to hit those power intervals. I ended up making the adjustment on Trainerroad to %FTP correction, but the % arrows would work just as well.

Erg mode is still awesome with this adjustment. It's just SO much steadier than non-erg - as said before, non-erg mode, with full focus will have your power -10 and +10 (about 20watt variance) during the interval, and that's with constant attention. With the Kickr, it's literally like <3 watts in either direction, and noticeable in the effort. Sure, you can still get great training without erg mode, but as said above, once you have the convenience of erg mode, it's one significant less problem to deal with for indoor training, which is hard enough to do even in optimal conditions. In my book, anything that makes indoor trainer more enjoyable and less of a chore is a win, and I'm almost all indoors nowadays.

Of course, if you're on a budget, the Kickr is not for you. Despite it's awesomeness, it is definitely NOT a required must-have; you will get great results by hammering on a regular trainer, just with more variability and more focus needed to hold those intervals. (Again, having done both extensively, I actually feel that the Kickr trains you better for holding a set power than non-erg trainers.)

I agree with you; sometimes the watts just aren't there and you have to punt. Can you dial things back on a non-Trainer Road platform? CT?

I'm all for making indoor training more enjoyable.