I'm mildy annoyed they took the time to tell us the beta was ending, but couldn't provide the subscription price they're going to be charging in less than a month?!

I'm out after that. It's fun, but it doesn't offer much of a "serious" workout.

Like someone has said somewhere else, their business model would have been more interesting if they were supported by in-game ads and sponsors (billboards, kits, etc.). It's not like they didn't try with Jaguar and other sponsors previously...

Its still more of a social based site than serious training, but they say they will have a workout mode coming soon so that could help it compete with Trainer Road.

Being a Kickr guy i am more interested in the news that ergVideo was now in beta for Kickr. Little pricey but they have great workouts videos that have serious training capabilities.

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2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com

Very interested to see the "workout mode". I used Zwift a couple times, but got bored without a workout to follow.

I like Zwift a lot but for me when I ride on the trainer I like to watch video and the graphics needed for that program don't allow me to run anything else on my computer that I use and plug into my TV. I could get another Roku/Apple TV but not sure if it's worth it because I like seeing everything on one screen like TrainerRoad does. But depending on the price I still might stick with it since it gives me options if I want to listen to podcasts/music instead of watching a video. The courses are cool but they need a workout creator in order for me to stick with it full time.

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Twitter - Instagram

Have you tried the Virtual Training app by Cycleops? I have been using that one exclusively with my Kickr and love it. Use it for real course videos, as well as structured workouts. Super easy to create your own as well.

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Don't forget to attack!

I'm happy to pay for it. I have been in beta with them since January. I have rode thousands of miles online. I often use their organized group rides for z2 training and I use the ZTR races for hard efforts (threshold and Vo2max). The new workout mode I hope will be comparable to trainer road. I'm holding out on another year of trainer road until I see the workout mode. I would be willing to pay for both if they are $10 a month or under. Otherwise I think Zwift wins over TR for me. The key to my enjoyment on Zwift is getting in the group events and meeting new people of similar skill levels to ride with.

Not surprised in the least bit. They've been free for a pretty long time if you got in one of the earlier betas, but trainer season is make or break for these types of services so no way they were going to go much longer without starting to charge.

People can complain about the subscription service and there are certainly valid complaints about this model but the talk of it being ad supported is naive. This isn't Spotify or some other service with tens of millions of users, it's a niche product with a minuscule audience in comparison to almost every other internet medium. How much do you think they could get away with charging a company like Jaguar to be the title sponsor? 100k if they were lucky? Zwift is a team of ~10 people, they can have fun splitting that 10 ways.

Speaking of our friend Spotify, they lost close to 200 million dollars last year dear despite having over a billion in revenue and a subscription service to try and shore up their free offering. Companies that offer 'free' services often hemorrhage money in the effort to grow quickly and eventually figure out a way to break even. Not exactly a viable option if you aren't swimming in VC capital.

There were only a handful ways this could have gone, subscription, freemium or some variation on the perpetual license. Freemium is terrible and perpetual license can be ruled out almost immediately since it is a multiplayer game and can't tolerate fragmentation.

While subscription was all but inevitable my biggest concern with Zwift right now is based on their staff page. They appear to be bloated for what it is they're actually offering and especially in comparison to the competition. I wonder how much they're going to need to charge and how many users they'll need just to float their roster full of 'visionaries', 'strategists' and other blowhard titles. What they need the most right now is a VP of getting shit done because people are only going to be content with the same circle in the south pacific for so long without a meaningful evolution of the user experience.

When i really used my Kickr last winter i was already getting training workouts so i simply used the wahoo app and controlled my wattage in erg mode and watched youtube videos of IM's and UCI road races for distraction.

I'll probably go back to TR+SF combo since its relatively cheap and i have no real training focus. ergvideos's all run about $50 each so you buy 3-4 and you just dropped few hundred bucks.

Havent tried the Cyclops app yet, i'll give it a shot though.

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2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com

Someday when I'm promoted to some top brass position I'll demand that this is my title. In their defense they do seem to roll out some nice improvements but the pace of new development from an end user perspective has slowed recently. I suspect they have been working on infrastructure for collecting fees and there is a bit of discussion about a workout mode and some partnerships, so possibly they have a big push set to release.

 

what are these group rides you speak of? are they listed somewhere?

Best way to find them is on the Zwift Riders facebook page. They are also listed here I think - http://titaniumgeek.com/...ial-running-updates/

It's relatively easy to do structured and "serious" workouts with Zwift while running another program. I use BT to control my KICKR and the Wahoo Fitness app on iPad, and ANT+ to control a computer and Zwift.

WKO mode will make it a lot simpler.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I do something similar, where I do TrainerRoad work outs on my iPad with Zwift running on the laptop (feeding my TV).

For the most part the only time I run just Zwift is when it's a Zone 1 or 2 recovery or base mileage day. I've never really gotten into the online racing concept that so many people love about Zwift, and to be honest one of the things I love about being on my bike is how non-social it is; I can just do my thing.

While I enjoy it in it's current format, as others have said; there will need to be more to it for me to pay.

Having said that, now I'm going ride around in Zwift :-)

I'm out as well since they haven't added Velotron support and seem to have a chip on their shoulder about using the official Racermate API.

I'm out as well. It's been nice and fun but I left TrainerRoad in favor of PerfPro to get rid of subscriptions. I'm just now breaking even on the investment and I'm looking forward to seeing some savings now.

I'm not opposed to spending money on a program I use but I vastly prefer a one-time buy option over a subscription option

I would find the competitive aspect more compelling if there were weighted courses. You do so well and you get bumped up a level. Being 62nd on a KOM doesn't do much for me.

And maybe this belongs in cry like a little biatch, but during my cool down on this last ride I spectated a guy who held 500 watts for the 15 minutes I watched him (with 15-20 second periods of over 1000 watts). We are not in the same league.

I need a training wheels course :)

The other option is in game add-ons and upgrades tied to performance bonuses. If they can do that, and get a healthy series of races going that would be sufficient. Triathletes and Cyclists frequently shell out huge sums of money to upgrade their bikes so $2-4 for Wheels, or a $10 Dura-Ace upgrade,etc which offers a set amount of Watt savings would be a no brainier. Combine that with a competitive virtual race series and they would capture the virtual market. They could also charge for the "WorkOut/Training Plan" or "Race" modules separately.

In game purchase model accounts for 76% of the revenue generation in the App Store and Play Store. Make a one time fee of say $25 and then add the add-on model, advertising model and you'll have the capitol needed to fund a race series with payouts to the athletes.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I could see some people shelling out for things like a faster bike in Zwift, but not enough to pay the bills. Why pay for a faster bike when you can just cheat like everyone already does and lower your weight? On the other hand, games like CS:GO have taught us that people are willing to spend fabulous amounts of money on purely cosmetic upgrades that have no impact on in-game performance but there's another big problem with that, economies of scale. CS:GO and TF2 have hundreds of thousands of players, you don't need a large percentage of them to be purchasing skins and hats for the total cash flow to add up. That's not going to be the case with Zwift, the 'player base' is always going to be small in comparison.

The same applies to freemium games on the app store. The popular ones all have 100k+ downloads and while there are loads and loads of apps that don't see those kinds of numbers they also wouldn't be able to support a team of full time employees like Zwift has.

In the end it's pretty simple, if you don't think Zwift is worth the subscription then don't pay for it. If enough people agree with you and forgo then they'll be forced to follow the same path that every MMOPRG has over the past 10 years. Lower subscription prices and if that doesn't work, go to freemium. Well, that, or die.

Until that day however, you're going to have to suck it up and pay or sit on the sidelines.

Has anyone other than ergvideo taken advantage of this? A year later and to my knowledge no applications have used this to support the VeloTron. I think the VT is an incredible trainer but there is something going on here beyond just the Zwift folks.

I'm all over this thread today and need to get back to work, but that being said I'm willing to wager that no one cares about the Velotron because all 10 people in the world who have one are on these forums.

Developing software costs money and speaking of money the Velotron was what, 7 thousand dollars? Adding support for VT will probably cost more than they'll ever recoup from the handful of additional customers they might possibly get. Or at the very least, adding VT support would have to be extremely low down the list of priorities for the same reason.

Not a knock against you or VT owners personally, it's just how technology works. You have the betamax of trainers in the era of Netflx.

All very good points and nothing there I disagree with EXCEPT that I was thinking of a takeover strategy with my proposal. If they are able to launch a successful virtual race series then they could potentially be acquired and then VC dollars put behind them. That being said you are absolutely right when it's a long game planned.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

PerfPro started using their API. Not sure if they added Velotron support yet, but it's not all that hard once you have the library (and a Velotron to test it on).

See, this I don't understand. I have done plenty of hard work on Zwift. 4/5/8/10/15min intervals. Hot laps. Repeated KOM attempts. You make the ride hard. Zwift just gives an excellent interactive scenery (which is important to real world transferability).

The idea that training needs to be dialled to the nearest second and/or if its not in erg mode it doesn't count - needs to die.