Haven't listened but may have to, especially after that race yesterday!

I listened to one. I found it very frustrating to hear good advice so easily discounted. Tawnee is very knowledgable, that was the one thing I took away.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Shoot...that's right - ee, not y.

At first I was reluctant to be critical, but when you're putting your goal out there so publicly I think it is warranted. Even from a guy like me who has only gone as far as Olympics and 13.1.

I have been impressed with Tawnee as well. Not totally sold on the fat adapted thing, but whatever. Could be exactly what he needs. That's not the issue. It is just fascinating to hear their conversations and to hear his version of the problems.

My armchair quarterbacking would be to do an FTP test, ride to a prescribed percent of FTP and really focus on running. Take time after Texas and rebuild from 5k up. Skip the 50 mile slog races. Endurance isn't the problem. I'd suggest reading that WX Kona thread, but maybe not the best because WX had the run as his best event, right?

Of course I'm not a coach, Ironman finisher or sub-10 guy, so I might be way off. Maybe the best thing to do would be to swallow pride and really try to follow Tawnee's advice, even if you might disagree.

I get the PM dying/ crash thing at Galveston. Something obviously wasn't right at Texas either judging by the bike splits. His fitness may be well ahead of his results. Maybe bad luck. We'll have to see this week...

---

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I just think he always over bikes. That's the problem.

No, his entire training protocol is his problem. He says in the most recent podcast "I know how to train" and then spends the rest of the discussion demonstrating he doesn't know how to train. He bases his FTP on a segment of a race from last year? i don't train with power and even I know thats ridiculous. He tries to equate ultra running fitness to IM marathon fitness when there is little correlation between the two in regards to fitness or training. His run results aren't so much about nutrition or over biking, it's lack of run specific fitness off a 112 mile bike and that speaks directly to how he has been training all these years. Tawnee is spot on and he need about 2 years of run focused training if he ever wants to go sub 10 and he still would be far off from KQ. I'm not a coach but it's really pretty clear.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I've been following the saga and I'm a podcast listener since 2012. It's been quite frustrating to follow the exchange between the two and how the guy just totally ignores all of her advice. I get it that he's been into endurance sports for some time but if you want to change something and you ask someone for coaching help then follow the damn plan, be 100% in and see what happens. If you don't trust that person to get you to your goal then find someone else.

His goal of going sub 10 is much too optimistic for him at this time given his previous racing history. First, I wouldn't even think about breaking the 10h mark of an IM unless I can consistently go under 4:35 in a 70.3. Second, choosing a race that plays to your strengths is key... he definitely can't handle the heat and humidity at his size so in my opinion if he wants to improve his chances he should look at other races that better suit him.

Also, get a real coach and follow their advice FFS! It seems like every other week he is doing something else. He just can't help but follow every training/nutrition fad out there whether it's "going by feel", low carb/high fat, no calorie session, polarized training, MAF method, etc... it's always something else. Stop running those ridiculous ultra races... 100 mpw of plodding will not help you get faster, they will only make you a more efficient plodder.

Ive listed to Brett for years and got into endurance planet when tawnee would read the news on zentri
Brilliant, I love both the podcasts and the zendurance shows especially
Trying to train Brett must be like herding cats

---

-

http://www.thetrinerd.com

Brett, I'm sorry to be so blunt and interjectory, but when you open yourself on a podcast like that, it happens.

Having said that, I agree that you tend to pick from too many trees. Pick one, pick a goal, listen to the coach, and go with it.

Oh, indeed. It was a little frustrating before ("Hm, you should consider doing X", "oh yeah I totally do that already!" "err...") but the most recent episode was quite introspective, especially when they got talking about long-term effects and essentially whether they were actually healthy or, god forbid, happy. People don't seem to be willing to talk about that kind of stuff in triathlon, let alone *hear* it so bravo for Tawnee for raising it a few times in the last few months on various Endurance Planet shows - she's helped more people out of genuine life slumps than she would know.

Or more to the point a lot of good advice followed by "yeah, but..."

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

What! Why waste time and money with power and not even attempt the simplest aspect of it? I thought I was shocked by the people with power meters not recording zeros or using auto-pause.

I think he may be overbiking because he is basing his power pace on a silly number, so you both may be right.

I tried listening to that ZenTri podcast in the past and couldn't make it through half of it. That dude Brett loves to hear himself talk way too much. I've tried to go listen to it again every once in a while for a specific interview and he spends 90% of the interview talking and the invited guests don't get to say much. LET THEM TALK DUDE!

Most people in here are quite correct about lots of this stuff. From my end, this is what I'm seeing -

1. Don't have the time to train (and not interested in anymore) out slogging mega-hours. I've got a kid and job that needs me more than that. Wish it was different, but it's not.
2. I certainly have hopped around from one method to another, which undercuts growth.
3. I do overbike for sure. So I under-biked this weekend and started out with a decent run speed (for me) at the start. That was a nice change. Started getting sick about halfway through the run, though. Not sure what caused that. I hardly ate anything but drank plenty of water on the run up until then. Any input would be great.
4. I talk too much for sure. Working on that, but that takes time to change a personality.
5. Correct on the 50 milers not being great bike-run stuff. They are very related, but not quite enough to be equivalent. I'm considering skipping the ultra running this winter to work on run speed instead. I am appreciative of the ultras though - they turned me into a much better runner than I ever had been before.
6. I've been biking with power for nearly 10 years and can tell when my numbers change even the tiniest bit. After a point, tests just confirm what you already know. If you monitor your workouts, you can easily spot and where your FTP is. If I did an hour at 273 last fall and all my workout numbers are the same or better, an FTP of 273 is still a safe bet.

Thanks for the input!

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

1. It's not a question of volume, its a question of specificity. If you want to run a 3:30-3:45 IM marathon, which is the only way to go sub 10 hours, you need to train to run that pace for 26.2 miles on the road. That's not a volume issue, it's a quality issue.
2. Without a doubt.
3. You don't over bike for what your bike fitness and goals are. You do over bike for what run fitness actually is.
4. LISTEN to what people are actually saying when they talk.
5. Ultra trail running IS NOT IM run specific. Don't try and create a correlation where it doesn't exists as it clearly gives you a false sense of your run fitness.
6. Again, I don;t even use a power meter but the people who I know who do and are successful are always testing their FTP over the course of a season. The fact that you are unwilling/reluctant to do one is problematic.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Plenty of people use power and do not do specific FTP testing. As Coogan says, "Training is testing and testing is training." The issue is more that you should not use one section of one ride from over 6 months ago.

Or I should say using race results, which are likely the best indicators bike power relative to fitness.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I partly agree with this, you should monitor your workouts to determine your current fitness. But why are you using numbers from 9 months ago? You have current data, use that. You yourself say that your current fitness is the same or better, so if they are better, shouldn't you be using that number? What does your current MMP look like?

Also, you should probably turn off auto-pause or stop pausing at stoplights.

Race results are not necessary, especially for Tris where you are going well below threshold. Also, it depends on how often you race. Bike racing on the other hand can give you some great data.

I can go 50 miles where I train and hit one stop sign, might never see an auto-pause. I ride in an extremely rural area. That's not an issue.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

I think it takes a lot to put yourself out there for random internet doods like me to armchair quarterback your training and racing. I hope you get your goal and can balance it with family/ work/ etc.

---

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Thanks! I really appreciate it. :)

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

I stalked you on Athlinks - looks like there was a 19:45 5k. Is that you PB? How much slower is your sprint tri run PB?

Didn't se any open half marathons - ever done one?

---

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

That's a decent time, but not my absolute PB. Everything I've done in shorter than ultra running races is either with no taper in the middle of a training block (joining in a 5k because family wanted me to) or been in a triathlon. A few years ago, I ran an 19:00 5k in training when I was well rested. That's not amazing, but would be right about my max. Something I want to work on for sure. I just asked my wife if I ever ran a half marathon and she reminded me that I did, but I ran to it and home, totaling 30 something miles for the day. And the other one I did, I was a seeing-eye dog for a blind lady.

I did run a leg of a marathon relay that was 6.77 miles at a 7:09 pace with some rolling terrain. Was sorta rested for that. But didn't train for it specifically.

I find the guys that bounce along on the run in an Ironman to be fascinating. To be that great at running after biking 112 miles is pretty special. Very envious!

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Ok, so then there is no reason to have it on then, ;).

I am just trying to get you the best data you can get. What are you using to analyze your power data?