I'm curious why you went out of your way to not identify the tri bike.

I'm just not interested in starting a brand conversation.

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USAT Level 1 Coach
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But you said specialized...

Is it a good fit? How much do you ride each bike? How often are you putting out power in a triathlon to feel these stiffness differences?

I've never seen any data that lack of stiffness actually affects speed in an appreciable manner.

Realistically, there is maybe two or three situations in a triathlon where you need to put the power down. 99% of the time should be a metered effort where you couldn't tell small tubed steel from oversized carbon. So, I'm guessing that there maybe some fit issues, or maybe some other things you could do to like the bike better.

This. Plus, you can't compare handling on a road bike to handling on a tri bike. The road bike will always feel nimbler due to the geometries involved.

John

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Specialized...True. I just didn't think anyone at Slowtwitch would be interested in arguing that the Tarmac road bike isn't a mid-level, quality road bike. But then again this is Slowtwitch so somebody is always looking to piss in your cornflakes.

Fit...fit was done at InsideOut Sports here in NC. They've been around for quite a while and have a good reputation in the Southeast. Was it a good fit? I guess you guys are saying "maybe not". I'd pretty much dialed it in on my own over several months before my fitting. Only a few tweaks were really needed. I got lower in the front. Some seat adjustments. That was about it. Since then I have added 10mm on the stem for more length (as I got more flexible).

Sorry if my use of responsiveness was interpreted to mean handling. It handles as I expect it would. It definitely isn't as nimble as a road bike. By responsive I mean, when I mash pedals on my road bike it takes off. When I mash pedals on my tri bike it is "meh".

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USAT Level 1 Coach
redrockmultisport@gmail.com

^^^This

The tri bike is faster, period. It's not going to have the feel of a road bike, but you should race on the bike that's faster.

I have a high-end tri bike and an intro level roadie, and the roadie still feels better (even though Strava shows I'm faster on the tri bike [same wheels] even when staying out of the aero bars on training rides).

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
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Well, you didn't sounds very confident about your fit, so it why I asked. I'm still curious to hear how much you ride each bike.

I guess I'd say, the get up and go feeling can come down to a few things but again, I've never seen anything to actually suggest it has an appreciable difference on speed.

Three things come to mind:
1. The hoods position on a tri bike can be low and forward making it feel uncomfortable or lack that "pop". Some times you can get a more comfortable hoods position while maintaining your aero position depending on your front end.
2. Some bars, stems, and cranks feel worse than others. Again, little effect on speed but some people feel differences and it has an effect on th ride experience.
3. Riding the tri bike more almost always helps.

Good luck. I'd stick with the tri bike. The position and lack of drop bar/sti shifters should make it faster.

If you put clip-on bars on your Tarmac and change your seat post (using something like the redshift system) you will have achieved the majority of the aero benefits of a tri bike with two possible issues:

1 - The handlebars may be too low and the top tube too long to put you into a comfortable aero position on the specialized. You could alleviate this by putting spacers under your handlebars to raise them a few centimeters. The redshift system (or similar) should put you far enough forward to get your elbows comfortably on the bars.

2 - Unless you use electronic shifters or get bar end shifters you will have to move your hands to shift, not a huge deal but keep it in mind.

Specialized produces a bike - the Alias - which is essentially a road frame set up the way I described, which is sold as a dual purpose road/tri bike depending on the seat post you use. A good fitting road bike with aero bars (and nice components) will feel better than a cheap and badly fitting tri bike with bad components. As always, the decision is yours, you are the one the one that has to ride the thing.

Doing that number of events I have to presume these are short course which is where the bike leg really matters most. That is where you're going to make up and increase time on your competitors. With that being said, it would then be a matter of the course you're on. Most triathlon events have a mainly flat or rolling terrain where the aero position is the most important aspect to conserve energy. If it's a more "technical" course then I'd lean towards the road bike, for the flatter courses tri-bike.

In the end the one that you go the fastest on or gives an advantage is what matters, not how much flex it has. At that point you're really reaching for an excuse to use your nicer bike.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Your first point makes no sense. You premise the idea on moving his saddle forward. With the saddle forward on a road bike, the top tube is shorter than a comparable tri bike. Also, the bars on a road bike are HIGHER than a tri bike. If you are adding a spacers on a road to tri bike conversion, you're doing it wrong.

OK - look at a picture of a Tarmac, it has a fairly long top tube, longer than a TT bike would normally have. If you clip on bars to that there is a high likelihood that he/she will be too far back on the frame, when in the bars the front of the rider's forearms will be resting over the head tube. You change the seat post to push that person forward so their elbows are resting right over the head tube. If you look at a picture of the tarmac you will also notice the handlebars are fairly low, a typical configuration for a racing type of road bike frame. This is great for riding on the drops. The problem could be that with clip on bars when he/she gets into them, he/she will feel crunched up, sort of like being in the fetal position but on a bike. The solution is to raise the handlebars to the rider. This isn't true for all people, I didn't have to change my handlebar height when I put mine on. Look at the Specialized Alias compared to the tarmac, you will notice the handlebars on the Alias appear higher than the ones on the Tarmac, this is on purpose.

Keep in mind we aren't making a TT bike out of a road bike. We are clipping on bars so he/she can ride in an essentially aero position. It won't be perfect, and if you are trying to get the same body position on a road bike with clip-ons as you get on a TT bike, then I can promise the fit will be way wrong. OP stated he/she enjoyed riding the Tarmac better than his TT bike. I can understand, the Tarmac is a great bike and road frames are essentially pleasant to ride on which is why they are still sold in huge numbers. I present a solution which will give him/her some benefit of riding in an aero position but still retain use of the bike he/she likes without buying a more expensive TT bike.

A 56 2012 P2 with DA upgrades would be the perfect bike for you. Throw on some Zipp 404FC's with a Carbon fiber cover and you'll be flying. Where can you find all of that? Hmm, I know, I'll be selling mine after I race next w/e.

I'm not going to look at a picture, I'm going to look at stack and reach. Looking at the stack and reach of a Tarmac is going to tell me that it's reach is short compared to a tri bike, and with the saddle forward, the top tube is comparatively short for an aero position.

A Tarmac has less reach and more stack than all true tri bikes. If he leaves his saddle in the road position, then yes, it may be too stretched out BUT you said push the seat forward. The reason a person could feel bunched up as you stated is because they are taking a road bike with a reach of 370-395 and pushing the saddle forward; the solution is not a higher stem, it's either a longer stem or getting a purpose built bike in the first place, like a tri bike with a reach of 395-440.

The alias is a good idea that's really not well executed in my opinion and part of the problem is that they sell women short by giving it comfort geometry instead of a more aggressive geometry more fitting of a dual purpose bike.

so the tri bike is faster than the roadie, but when you " mash on the pedals".... what, you think the frame is flexing????
not certain about you, but when I mash the pedals with my awesomeness of power, my flexy frame settles down, from it's flexing in about a couple of short time units... maybe a sec or two, and we're good to go till my next awesome pedal mash. The need to put out frame flexing power in a tri is so irregular, that even pro itu triathletes would not be hindered by a flexing frame in an sprint race.
your tribike is faster than your roadie.... you said so.
just enjoy the speed.

You aren't going to change the stem at all, that is pointless. You need to position the rider over the head tube for stability and comfort. The reach of a TT bike is not important to me because we aren't fitting someone on a TT bike, we are fitting them on a road bike with clip-on bars. I care about getting the elbows over the head tube so the bike can be ridden comfortably, which means I push the rider forward a bit. If I change the stem to a longer stem, I will certainly flatten them out a bit but the elbows will be in an uncomfortable position. There is a whole cottage industry of seat post manufacturers whose only job in life is to make a roadie comfortable in aero bars.

Maybe we are playing with semantics here, when I say push the saddle forward, I don't mean pushing the saddle forward on the rails, I mean changing the seat post angle which pushes the rider position forward. I included a link to the seat post that I reference. It isn't perfect, but keep in mind that OP stated that they have a purpose built bike and they don't like it. Since presumably OP is not competing for prize money or a Kona slot, then riding the road bike with a good fit and clip-on bars should be fine - we are fitting them to be comfortable in the bars, not to exactly mimic a TT position.

As for the Alias, I totally understand why the engineers designed it the way they did. An aggressive road frame is not particularly well suited for modifying with clip-on bars. An aggressive TT frame isn't suited for road at all. A more relaxed road frame does do clip on bars fairly well for the TT position - and many people are finding a relaxed road frame more to there liking for road biking as well - hence the large numbers of Domanes, Roubaixs, and Syapses that are sold.

http://www.redshiftsports.com/collections/dual-position-seatposts

You don't seem to understand tri bikes enough to understand how to effectively use a road bike in a similar manner. I cannot fathom the idea that a person should push their saddle up and raise their bars...

The OPs problem is a subjective one, which is real and worthy of exploring solutions. The things you're suggesting and talking about make no sense.