Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
What to look for in your first set of race wheels...
Quote | Reply
I am on the market to buy my first race wheels for Augusta next month. Never used them before. I hear great things about Easton, Profile Design, and Zipp mostly. My max price is $2k and I have a 2013 Speed Concept.

What do I look for in terms of compatibility?
Should I order from the web or through a dealer?

Basically, the amount of stuff out there is mind numbing for someone not a gear guru :) There seem to be so many types! And then I hear you use different ones for different weather conditions...different courses (fast course, hilly course, etc)...!!!

And is there any getting used to race wheels? Some have told me I need to practice turns and that they'll feel different. Others say it isn't necessary.

Feedback appreciated :)
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you dont have a power meter I recommend the combo of Mavic cosmic SLS($1299) + Stages power meter($699) + wheel cover. Race wheels and power at the same or even lower cost than higher end wheels.

As for different wheels, if you have an endless budget you can tailor the exact wheel tire combo to various courses. For example a pair of 1200 gram tubulars for super hilly road races or a pair of 90mm rims for calm flat courses. If you only have the budget for one pair of wheels getting something around the 40-60mm range is best. In that range of width you are getting a sizable aero advantage and still retain solid handling, even in crosswinds. A deeper rim would provide a bit more aero but at the penalty of weight and some cross wind handling.
Last edited by: origamimouse: Aug 24, 14 22:20
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You need to first start with do I want carbon braking surface or do I want aluminum. Then, look for any wheel with a Firecrest like shape. Flo and HED on the aluminum braking side, Zipp and ENVE for carbon clinchers.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
solovely_19 wrote:
And then I hear you use different ones for different weather conditions...different courses (fast course, hilly course, etc)...!!!

A lot of people think that, but it is driven by mythology not science. On every triathlon course in the world, a disc rear wheel and deepest front you can handle is the fastest option. There are a couple races where disc wheels are not allowed, such as Kona, so if you plan to go to Kona you might want to just use a deep rear instead.

Rear Wheel does not influence handling on windy days, so never be afraid to go all the way and use a disc or disc cover

Front wheel CAN be tricky for some people, if you want to be safe, use a 404ish medium depth wheel and you will be ok. They are usually not much slower anyway.

Pretty much the only thing of importance for wheel performance is aerodynamics. Weight doesn't matter much at all. Reliability is always good of course. Good braking surface is nice especially when it rains

Some options with great aerodynamics:

1. HED Jet - medium price, metal braking surface so good braking wet or dry.

2. Zipp/Enve - very expensive, a little lighter than the Jets, all carbon, which means braking may be not quite as nice as the HEDs

3. Flo - very inexpensive, great aerodynamics, hard to get as you have to wait for a Flo sale and jump on it quick

4. Boyd/Williams - great aerodynamics, all carbon, lower prices


There are other good wheels that is just a summary. The Cosmic SLS I was actually avoid the shape they use is a bit dated and not very aerodynamic.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This should be stickied.
jackmott wrote:
solovely_19 wrote:
And then I hear you use different ones for different weather conditions...different courses (fast course, hilly course, etc)...!!!


A lot of people think that, but it is driven by mythology not science. On every triathlon course in the world, a disc rear wheel and deepest front you can handle is the fastest option. There are a couple races where disc wheels are not allowed, such as Kona, so if you plan to go to Kona you might want to just use a deep rear instead.

Rear Wheel does not influence handling on windy days, so never be afraid to go all the way and use a disc or disc cover

Front wheel CAN be tricky for some people, if you want to be safe, use a 404ish medium depth wheel and you will be ok. They are usually not much slower anyway.

Pretty much the only thing of importance for wheel performance is aerodynamics. Weight doesn't matter much at all. Reliability is always good of course. Good braking surface is nice especially when it rains

Some options with great aerodynamics:

1. HED Jet - medium price, metal braking surface so good braking wet or dry.

2. Zipp/Enve - very expensive, a little lighter than the Jets, all carbon, which means braking may be not quite as nice as the HEDs

3. Flo - very inexpensive, great aerodynamics, hard to get as you have to wait for a Flo sale and jump on it quick

4. Boyd/Williams - great aerodynamics, all carbon, lower prices


There are other good wheels that is just a summary. The Cosmic SLS I was actually avoid the shape they use is a bit dated and not very aerodynamic.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Aug 25, 14 7:55
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?

I am a 27 year old female, podium in local races, top 20 in my age group in larger races. I'll be hanging out in the sprint, olympic, 70.3 range for a couple more years and then I want to do a full.
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is going to open up a firestorm but here goes:

Aluminum braking is always superior to carbon. Riding in the rain, carbon stopping distances increase. It depends on the brake pads, braking material, etc. but it never matches aluminum. They tend to be a little heavier due to the metal brake track

Carbon clinchers can be more aero due to the brake track is roughly flush with the rim. They can be lighter as well. The braking is different on each companies carbon clinchers depending on their brake tracks.

Aluminum braking with carbon fairing is alot cheaper than carbon clinchers. If it was my choice I would buy 2 sets of wheels: Carbon clinchers for flat courses and HED Jets for technical courses and rainy days

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I hear great things about Easton, Profile Design, and Zipp mostly. My max price is $2k and I have a 2013 Speed Concept.

Do not spend $2k unless that is a negligible amount to you.

The aluminum brake track/carbon fairing wheels would be best for you. Since you are probably light weight and new to this, go with ~60mm front. You can actually put a plastic disc cover on your rear wheel to make it a disc. Many fast riders do this.

Flo is a great low cost option, but they don't have stock. You may be able to get something in the classifieds. Hed Jet is another that is more expensive. Swiss Side is a new company from Switzerland that seems pretty well thought out, but I don't know if you could get one of those quickly.

Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
you can really go several routes:

The slightly unknown quantity which requires some homework and (abit) of risk:
There are many smaller wheelmakers out there now making great wheels for less coin than the established brands, offering carbon clinchers/tubulars for not much more than a grand, some cheaper. Obviously some have been around longer, such as Boyd, Williams, November Cycles, Planet X, and SOUL, so these are quite a known quantity and theres less risk. on the other extreme you could go for china unbranded carbon wheels, which probably will carry the most risk. ( less if you buy from some more reputable people like Hongfu, bikehubstore.com). note that ALOT of mechanically saavy bike racers do this and are pretty successful. Aerodynamics may be hit and miss. Some of the bigger guys in these categories-boyd ,williams, are offering some pretty good aerodynamics if you take their word for it. There are value buys to be had here to get you 90% of the performance at a much lower price, but you're going to have to do your homework, or talk to someone who does. you MIGHT throw Flo cycling in here too, but I've put them in the next category) . I will include 2nd hand wheels here as well, because you will need to do your homework.

Pros: Can be had for cheap. a Value buy ( also applies to Flo, see next category)
Cons: need to do your homework. some risk involved.

the safe, budget route with the aim of upgrading later on:
look for a pair of alloy braking surface wheels with carbon fairings from one of the bigger boys. these are usually cheaper and can be bought 2nd hand with not much fear of them being in bad conditon ( the construction method lends itself to being rather sturdy and repairable/truable in most cases. ) do look out for any cracks in the fairing if buying 2nd hand though. options include zipp 30/60s, SRAM S30/60, HED Jets, Bontrager Auras, 3T, Swiss side Hadron, Flos, Fulcrum red wind, Giant P-SLR aero 1 ( look out for these, I've heard these are really underrated and I'm looking to try a pair.) Easton EC 70 SL, Campagnolo bullet, American Classic Carbon 58s/ aero 420s, Shimano Dura ace C35s/C 50s and Mavic Cosmics. The more aero options would be zipp, SRAM, HED , flo and the auras, although the mavic cosmics, Shimanos and Campagnolo/fulcrums are known to be bombproof and reliable.

pros of this: alloy braking surface is better in almost all conditions than a full carbon wheel. most of these alloy/carbon hybrids are cheaper (note that cheap is relative), and 'feel' alot similar to what you would be used to on training wheels, so they'll be familiar. they are all clinchers, so no mechanical fuss. fairing can be damaged without compromising rideability ( for MOST, not all.)
cons: they are heavy, and depending on how your triathlon career you may want to upgrade later on. the method of construction also means fairings will usually also crack with time.

I'm-going-to-spend-money-anyway-might-as-well-get-it-now
Brand new set of wheels from the big players- Zipp, HED stingers, Bontrager aeolus, ENVE. if you're spending this much money you might as well go for the most aero. there are some axceptionshere, like reynolds assaults, which are relatively cheap as race wheels go but I don't think have the best aero.

pros: a known quantity. fast. will probably last you awhile (future proofed)
cons: most of these will have carbon braking surfaces , which will need time to get used to ( it's not difficult, but just different than normal wheels you'd train with.). if you go tubulars, you'll have to deal with that too.

For a first race wheel, get a general 40-60mm depth. no point worrying about different wheels for different courses/conditions unless you've got lots of cash to burn or are racing for a living. that depth will be good for 99% of races. you can add a disc cover later on as well.


you might have to sit down and take a look at what your skills and needs are. if alot of your racing is done on windy places and youi're light and having trouble with crosswinds, err on the shallower side of the 40/60mm depth. if you're a good bike handler and mechanically saavy and dont mind fussing with carbon braking, then go for it. if you're not, the alloy braking surface is your best bet.

for comments on specific brands: well I can only add input on those I've used before. most wheels by the big brands nowadays are so close it doesn't really matter, but my input:

HED Jets: cheap and reliable performer. great TT wheel, not so much if you want to do bike racing. spokes kept giving me problems with loosening, so abit high maintenance.

Shimano C50s: : not the most aero supposedly but a fine wheel by itself. strong and stiff, good all rounder

Campagnolo Boras/Fulcrum Racing Speed: Again, not the most aero. but oh so smooth and the best all round wheel I've used. not cheap though.

Zipp 404: bit of a mixed bag. wish they were slightly stiffer, but hold their speed well and are fast.

Eastons EC90TT: a decent ride, if abit heavily affected by winds. brake well, good for carbon. brake better than the zipps imo. but hubs are crap and are high maintenance. supposedly quite aero for older technology.

personally, I'd go with the FLO sale happening in 2 weeks. use the pennies saved to send them to a reputable wheelbuilder and check them over/true them.

Oh, and grab a powermeter if you haven't.
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Flos might not be as difficult to purchase as one might think. Got mine the first time through and it took all of five minutes. Although I can't compare them to anything else, I love them and they have really good customer service/ support. Next order is up in October I believe.
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [dannysays] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
September is the next order

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here's one thing, among a number of things to look at, that most don't consider. Assuming clinchers - Whatever wheel & tire combo you end up with, will the tire come off and go on the rim reasonably easily?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Zipp, hed, bontrager and enve are what I consider the cream of the crop.

Boyd, November, Flo, are all small start ups with compelling products.

3t's accelero team wheels, Shimano c50, and a few others from the big manufacturers also have their pros.

I tend to think the bontrager auras are a good bet, or 3t accelero 60 team. Alloy brake track, cheaper than most.
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
davidalone wrote:

personally, I'd go with the FLO sale happening in 2 weeks. use the pennies saved to send them to a reputable wheelbuilder and check them over/true them.

I appreciate the recommendation but have to ask why you feel our wheels need to be sent to a reputable wheel builder to be checked over? All of of our wheels are built to a very tight spec and come true. They also stay true for very long periods of time... aside from being abused. There should be no reason to send our wheels to a builder after purchasing them. We are using one of the best build factories available.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'd highly recommend Profile Design 24 Series. It's my first pair of aero/carbon wheels so I have no personal basis for comparison, but you should be able to pick up a set for $1200-$1600 on-line and from what I've read they compare favorably with Zipp and other much more expensive brands from an aero perspective. I've ridden them all summer and think they are great from a "feel" and braking perspective. Also, should be easy to find unlike Flo's. Surprised they don't get more love on this board.
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [Chitrilaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you want good solid aero all arounders that are not a maintenance hassle and high quality...

I'd get Hed Jet 6's and a rear wheel disc covers. Not too hard to handle for training, fast wheels and a disc cover for race day. And, aluminum brake surface so no pesky pad changes for races. You could probably get the whole package well within your price range if you shop around.

Flo's are a good second choice and you'd like to keep some more dollars in your pocket.

J
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Another minor quibble about the FLOs is their weight - I believe they are heavier than Zipps by a bit. I myself couldn't care less, but there are some weight weenies who do care enough to prefer the Zipps.
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Like others have said get the deepest wheels you're comfortable riding in the wind. This is usually a 40-66mm front with as deep of a rear as you can manage. Rear can then be covered and turned into a "disc" like rear and you'll maintain your handling with the front wheel staying the same. When I bought my wheels I asked myself a few questions to help with my decision:

1. Are these wheels going to be swapped between more than 1 bike
The reason to ask this is carbon clinchers require special pads and if you change wheels you have to change pads or equip all bikes with carbon brake pads. To avoid this use the wheels with aluminium breaking surfaces.

2. Are you going to true the wheels yourself at home?
The reason to ask this is some of the carbon wheels have their tension adjusted internally and not externally like traditional wheels do. It can be a pain to true wheels with this type.

3. What are the most frequent conditions you'll be riding in?
The reason to ask this is because if you like in the UK for example where it is mostly wet and rainy (from what I've heard) then you'll want to either get aluminum braking surface.

I like the idea of getting a pair of wheels and a power meter. With a $2000 budget you should be able to come close to getting one in addition to some nice wheels. I personally ride Reynolds Strike 66mm set with cryo blue power pads and don't find any issues. I'm not a roadie by any means but these met all my requirements. I've even had a powertap rear hub installed to get me power and aero for $3000 Canadian which is like $2700 USD. Just ask as many questions as you can before committing to the purchase!

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I picked up a used zipp disk and FC 808 with tires and tubes for about 2k, so if you don't mind lightly used i would go that route.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No offense chris, but thats what every wheelbuilder says, from mavic to easton to fulcrum to zipp to HED to shimano. ridden enough wheels to know that out of the box spoke tension/trueness isn't always necessarily 100%. This isn't necessarily anyones fault as stuff happens during shipping/packing and transport, obviously it differs from builder to builder and there are different QC standards, but I like taking the extra step of having someone good go over them to make sure they're A-Okay and fix any problems that come up. My wheelbuilder is a really good guy who knows his stuff and can get the most out of a wheel- whether it's getting them extra stiff and making sure there's spoke prep in the nipples.

I do this for all my wheels, no matter where they come from, so it's not an indictment of Flo's quality.
Last edited by: davidalone: Sep 1, 14 4:18
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Zipp is great, but the price-to-performance index is complete shit. Get some Planet X wheels. $750 for two 808s. About the same weight as Zipp 808s and nearly just as fast, maybe 5- 10 seconds slower if that. You can save the extra $1350 and sprint the last 20 seconds of the run which will make up for the difference, and that's free, or add a wheel cover in the rear and it will be faster than a set of Zipp 808s and still less than half the price.
Last edited by: SPL Tech: Sep 1, 14 4:25
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
davidalone wrote:
No offense chris, but thats what every wheelbuilder says, from mavic to easton to fulcrum to zipp to HED to shimano. ridden enough wheels to know that out of the box spoke tension/trueness isn't always necessarily 100%. This isn't necessarily anyones fault as stuff happens during shipping/packing and transport, obviously it differs from builder to builder and there are different QC standards, but I like taking the extra step of having someone good go over them to make sure they're A-Okay and fix any problems that come up. My wheelbuilder is a really good guy who knows his stuff and can get the most out of a wheel- whether it's getting them extra stiff and making sure there's spoke prep in the nipples.

I do this for all my wheels, no matter where they come from, so it's not an indictment of Flo's quality.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
davidalone wrote:
No offense chris, but thats what every wheelbuilder says, from mavic to easton to fulcrum to zipp to HED to shimano. ridden enough wheels to know that out of the box spoke tension/trueness isn't always necessarily 100%. This isn't necessarily anyones fault as stuff happens during shipping/packing and transport, obviously it differs from builder to builder and there are different QC standards, but I like taking the extra step of having someone good go over them to make sure they're A-Okay and fix any problems that come up. My wheelbuilder is a really good guy who knows his stuff and can get the most out of a wheel- whether it's getting them extra stiff and making sure there's spoke prep in the nipples.

I do this for all my wheels, no matter where they come from, so it's not an indictment of Flo's quality.

Based on the pair of Flo 60s that I purchased, you'd be wasting your wheelbuilder's time. They were impressively true and round, with very even spoke tension and never budged a millimeter in a season of riding New England potholes.
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [solovely_19] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Realize that race wheels are only a little faster; especially at low yaws (minimal wind).

Realize that the difference between race wheels is even smaller; again especially in light winds. Some would say it's almost negligible....

I think the aluminum vs carbon brake surface is a point. Do you want to change brake pads and adjust your brakes if you switch to race wheels?

I also like matching front and back race wheels. Will your spare tube have an extender on it to work with both fronts and back?

Discs - need a special crack pipe to pump up.....

I have old Hed Alps. They are 50 mm clinchers. Aluminum braking. I use latex tubes/ fast tires. I have an old set of zipp 909 tubular race wheels. I'm convinced the heds are faster most of the time....I have the income to buy zip 808s or a deep front and disc rear. I can't convince myself I'd save more than a few seconds per hour.....

I don't keep up on the new carbon clincher brake surfaces so things may have changed for the better regarding braking and needing new brake pads etc....

I'd look at some used stuff too....

Dave
Quote Reply
Re: What to look for in your first set of race wheels... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
On every triathlon course in the world, a disc rear wheel and deepest front you can handle is the fastest option.


Just for fun, is that absolutely 100% true?

Alpe d'Huez?

Well somebody had to ask!!

ETA: ok only fair to mention that I had already read this blog post from Flo when I asked that question. And the answer is that ADH is pretty much the only course in the world where lighter wheels are a bit faster than aero wheels, and even then only by 23 seconds (for Flo 30/30 vs Flo 90/Disc).
http://flocycling.blogspot.co.uk/...-aero-vs-weight.html

So in real life, the answer is, as always, do whatever jackmott says.
Last edited by: knighty76: Sep 2, 14 1:51
Quote Reply

Prev Next