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What are most important factors in an aero wheel?
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Hi all,

I'm in the market to upgrade to some aero wheels. However, I am undecided between weight and aerodynamics.
Which one really matters more?

Also, is there a noticeable difference in rigidity between different wheels?

Thanks
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [triubc] [ In reply to ]
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Reliability matters most. Go for a brand with good warranty and reputation, if anything happens you want to be covered if you're spending major $$$. After that, control. If you race a lot in coastal areas or other places where it's windy, you want to be able to control your bike. If this is the case, don't go too deep.

Now, weight vs aero. Do you prefer hilly races? Will you use these wheels for road races? Then go for weight. If you're only using your wheels for Tri/TT then go for aero. If you have a big budget, you can get a good combination of both.

Rigidity can be an issue, some aero wheels are simply aluminium rims with a carbon or even plastic faring, which is usually cheaper and often less stiff as full carbon - they can still be very capable wheels though, if used occasionally. Some brands of aero wheels have a reputation for being flimsy like Cole, Vision and shallower versions of Zipps, this can be a problem if you intend on using them everyday.

Another thing to look at is the location of the spoke nipples. Some brands place them inside the rim, this can make them very difficult to access when servicing, making them hard to true or replace a spoke.

What's your budget? As a starting point I'd recommend Enve, Hed, Reynolds, Campag/Fulcrum, Shimano or Williams. I don't know much about Flo (haven't got my hands on a set yet) but hearing good things about them too.
Last edited by: 42x16ss: Aug 1, 14 1:18
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [triubc] [ In reply to ]
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triubc wrote:
Hi all,

I'm in the market to upgrade to some aero wheels. However, I am undecided between weight and aerodynamics.
Which one really matters more?

Also, is there a noticeable difference in rigidity between different wheels?

Thanks
There are many factors that go into wheel choice*, but if the only decision is between aero and weight, then unless you are going up a very sleep hill a lot and/or it will be selective for your race, an aerodynamic wheel will almost always be faster, or require less energy, than a lighter somewhat less aero wheel in just about every circumstance. Even in acceleration scenarios an aero wheel wins the race.

Conditions will determine which type of aero wheel is suitable for you.

You can of course have both. It's just a matter of how much you want to spend.


* e.g. race the wheels you can afford to crash
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [triubc] [ In reply to ]
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Unless you are racing straight up a hill, always ignore weight. Aero trumps all. I'd choose in this order.

1) Tested aero numbers
2) Cost
3) Best wheel that performs at low yaw
4) Build quality / longevity
5) Looks
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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nickwhite wrote:
Unless you are racing straight up a hill, always ignore weight. Aero trumps all. I'd choose in this order.

1) Tested aero numbers
2) Cost
3) Best wheel that performs at low yaw
4) Build quality / longevity
5) Looks

This is pretty solid
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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42x16ss wrote:
Now, weight vs aero. Do you prefer hilly races?

http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...-aero-vs-weight.html

Quote:
Will you use these wheels for road races? Then go for weight.

Why? Maybe if it is a road race with a steep selective climb but otherwise no.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to start this off by saying I am not disagreeing with you, and I am just curious how you have come to this conclusion?

Have you modeled a race with typical accelerations that a road race/crit would encounter and take into account the moment of inertias of different depth wheels? I think the inertial effect of deeper wheels would matter more than the incline. But I could very well be wrong.
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, in summary, when going from a lighter, less aero wheel to a heavier more aero wheel, the aerodynamic savings is greater than the losses due to inertia and mass even when accelerating.

Some resources -

Tom A breaks down the relative contributions of aero vs wheel weight: http://www.slowtwitch.com/...nd_Inertia_2106.html


Josh from Zipp weighs in at the bottom of this article:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ailbag_-_4_3767.html

A spreadsheet I created where you can model the power requirement changes due to intertia and mass given various acceleration scenarios:
https://docs.google.com/...;usp=drive_web#gid=0



pyrahna wrote:
Have you modeled a race with typical accelerations that a road race/crit would encounter and take into account the moment of inertias of different depth wheels? I think the inertial effect of deeper wheels would matter more than the incline. But I could very well be wrong.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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10-4

Rim inertia == within the noise

Aero wins again

Thanks for doing out the calcs. Saves me from doing it :)
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Another great resource is the "Criterium Corner Calculator."

It also suggests aero trump, but shows that - at least for criteriums - weight is important enough that if two wheelsets are pretty much a wash aero-wise, to go for the lighter set.
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, when I put my spreadsheet together I did briefly...briefly..think about tubulars.

Then I had to pick glue off a set again

trail wrote:
Another great resource is the "Criterium Corner Calculator."

It also suggests aero trump, but shows that - at least for criteriums - weight is important enough that if two wheelsets are pretty much a wash aero-wise, to go for the lighter set.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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>Then I had to pick glue off a set again

I've found the secret.

A little Goo Gone and a pumice scouring stick. It's pure magic. The pumice quickly wears down to become a perfect fit with the tire bed. And it doesn't scratch the carbon.

I got an 808FC tubbie looking factory new in about 10 minutes. I mean literally factory new. The mechanic who I had glue the new tire on (I don't trust myself with my own life) refused to believe it had ever been glued before.



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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Why? Because in a road race you'll find yourself surging and accelerating much more often to cover attacks and make them yourself. You also have to control them in the bunch, not just by yourself.
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [triubc] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks all for the info. Very useful.

I have another question. When choosing a wheel, what is the biggest difference between say a 38mm and a 58mm?

Thanks again.
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [triubc] [ In reply to ]
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triubc wrote:
I have another question. When choosing a wheel, what is the biggest difference between say a 38mm and a 58mm?
.

Aero performance at higher yaw (with deeper wheels having a larger advantage at higher yaw angles), and crosswind sensitivity (with deeper wheels being more susceptible to being blown around). This is of course assuming you're comparing wheels with overall similar designs, for example two v-shaped rims or two Zipp Firecrests, etc.
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [triubc] [ In reply to ]
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How well they accent the look of my bike.

The preceived cost of the wheels by the uneducated public

Cost to me.

In otherwords - the Bling Factor.

Should that have been in pink?

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Jasco-Bix varnish remover. You wont need to scour or scrape at all. Just wipe off with a rag after letting it sit for 10 min. Like new. They sell it at Home Depot
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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Please see above where the inertia was quantified by 3 different people using physics.

42x16ss wrote:
Why? Because in a road race you'll find yourself surging and accelerating much more often to cover attacks and make them yourself. You also have to control them in the bunch, not just by yourself.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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i feel confident in saying that jackmott or tom a. will back this up, but minimal weight and quality of the brake track are the two most important factors in an aero wheelset.

in fact, since rim braking doesn't really work, the ability to accept a disc rotor is up there.
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [tetonrider] [ In reply to ]
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I like wheels with really large diameter integrated discs.

tetonrider wrote:
i feel confident in saying that jackmott or tom a. will back this up, but minimal weight and quality of the brake track are the two most important factors in an aero wheelset.

in fact, since rim braking doesn't really work, the ability to accept a disc rotor is up there.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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pyrahna wrote:
I'm going to start this off by saying I am not disagreeing with you, and I am just curious how you have come to this conclusion?

Have you modeled a race with typical accelerations that a road race/crit would encounter and take into account the moment of inertias of different depth wheels? I think the inertial effect of deeper wheels would matter more than the incline. But I could very well be wrong.
I won't speak for another poster, but I have modelled such things and aero wins for several reasons, including accelerating faster.

The only time a light wheel wins is within and handful of seconds from a dead or near dead stop. From a dead or near dead stop once the acceleration lasts longer than that, the aero wheel will be have edged ahead and thereafter wins the race. Even in a half lap track standing start, a heavier good aero wheel set is better than a lighter non aero wheelset.

The balance tips even further to the advantage of the aero wheel when your starting speed is higher (i.e. typical riding speeds). e.g. if you are already rolling at a moderate speed, say 20 mph, then the a good aero wheel will always accelerate faster than the lighter less aero wheel.

Keep in mind that at same speeds, you will be using less energy to maintain that speed with better aerodynamics, and so more of your available energy supply can be used for accelerations. IOW from same starting speed, on aero wheels you're riding at a lower power to begin with.
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Re: What are most important factors in an aero wheel? [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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42x16ss wrote:
Why? Because in a road race you'll find yourself surging and accelerating much more often to cover attacks and make them yourself.
Which is why the aero wheel is superior, as it accelerates faster in most situations, and you are using less energy during the race meaning you'll be fresher to cover such attacks. They also hold speed better meaning you can ease off the gas earlier when a corner approaches, or use less energy when taking advantage of short lulls to move up the field. And in final sprint, which will likely start from a highish speed, there is no contest, the aero wheel will accelerate faster from the moment you put the power down and provide for a higher top speed.

42x16ss wrote:
You also have to control them in the bunch, not just by yourself.
That's a consideration for sure but it doesn't mean one need ride super deep section rims to attain sufficient control in windy conditions as well as an aero advantage.
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