Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal

Feb 8, 16 6:01

Post #1 of 75 (11404 views)

From an earlier thread:

In the mid 90's we all discussed where and when to race longer than an Oly. Which race had the 'right stuff' to insure it wasn't their issues that made for a really bad day: lack of aid stations and volunteers, lack of security personnel, poor swim course management and a REAL medical team at the end in case we really wanted to push at that distance for a PR.

Don't be fooled by organization that don't have the professional experience to produce these monster logistical sporting events. Are we perfect? No. But there are very few organization that have produced these 2 distances RIGHT for years and years.

My dog could post a race registration, build a cute web page, design a course on map-my... and call themselves a 'triathalon' organizer.

Many Part-time or weekend only organizers DO NOT have what it takes to manage 70.3/140.6 miles of course. Period.

Race with professionals or you could be doomed to a seriously bad day; not of your own making.

The time to find out your race organizer sucked is not mile 10 on the run!

STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 6:48

Post #2 of 75 (11213 views)

is this like a anti-advert advert? I don't get it

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 6:52

Post #3 of 75 (11192 views)

Congratulations on either being a small enough race to fly under the radar of the WTC lawyers or simply ignoring their cease-and-desist letter for use of "Half Iron" in your event name. Either way, you don't see many indie triathlon events still manage to badge with Iron in the name. Kudos!

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 6:53

Post #4 of 75 (11187 views)

For real? This is almost as bad as the "volunteer or you are part of the problem and our sport is doomed (and I'll have to get rid of my BMW)" thread late last year.

I'm impressed that you are able to offer "professional experience" and allow people to "race with professionals", whilst simultaneously depending on unpaid volunteers to help you make money.

Dan, are you ok with these promo threads?

(edited)

Last edited by: knighty76: Feb 8, 16 6:55

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [kny] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 7:12

Post #5 of 75 (11063 views)

kny wrote:

Congratulations on either being a small enough race to fly under the radar of the WTC lawyers or simply ignoring their cease-and-desist letter for use of "Half Iron" in your event name. Either way, you don't see many indie triathlon events still manage to badge with Iron in the name. Kudos!

Pretty sure you can refer to the distance, just not the brand. So Half Iron Distance race would be ok, referring to Ironman would not. I could be wrong. To the OP. How about a little context to your post. Or did you just need to vent?
M~

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [M~] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 7:23

Post #6 of 75 (11003 views)

While it may very well be winnable in court, I can assure you that WTC sends out cease-and-desist letters for trademark infringement to races that use in their name or description things like "Half-Iron" or "Iron distance" as, according to WTC, the use of Iron is a direct reference to their "Ironman" trademark. Again, as there is no commonly accepted alternative to describe the distance (WTC says to use long-distance triathlon), fighting this could very well be winnable in court, but no indie races are willing to spend the money to fight WTC on it.

I don't like how WTC has monopolized long-distance triathlon. And one aspect that I do not like is how they have forced independent races to change their names. Can you imagine this happening in the running world? A for-profit company comes in, gets a trademark on the word "marathon" and forces all other half and full marathons to change their name to "long race"? It's inconceivable, yet is the state of affairs in long distance triathlon.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 7:38

Post #7 of 75 (10935 views)

You are right....

So I will keep doing and only do WTC events.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [knighty76] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 7:38

Post #8 of 75 (10934 views)

knighty76 wrote:

For real? This is almost as bad as the "volunteer or you are part of the problem and our sport is doomed (and I'll have to get rid of my BMW)" thread late last year.

I'm impressed that you are able to offer "professional experience" and allow people to "race with professionals", whilst simultaneously depending on unpaid volunteers to help you make money.

Dan, are you ok with these promo threads?

(edited)

Thanks you saved me the trouble of writing this.

As if there wasn't already too much scare-mongering in the world this guy is telling us volunteer or the sport will die and only do big brand events or we'll have awful events. I'm not based in the US so it's probably not relevant but I'd be inclined not to do any events run by someone who'd post this self-serving garbage, on principle.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 7:43

Post #9 of 75 (10907 views)

Stindiana wrote:

From an earlier thread:

In the mid 90's we all discussed where and when to race longer than an Oly. Which race had the 'right stuff' to insure it wasn't their issues that made for a really bad day: lack of aid stations and volunteers, lack of security personnel, poor swim course management and a REAL medical team at the end in case we really wanted to push at that distance for a PR.

Don't be fooled by organization that don't have the professional experience to produce these monster logistical sporting events. Are we perfect? No. But there are very few organization that have produced these 2 distances RIGHT for years and years.

My dog could post a race registration, build a cute web page, design a course on map-my... and call themselves a 'triathalon' organizer.

Many Part-time or weekend only organizers DO NOT have what it takes to manage 70.3/140.6 miles of course. Period.

Race with professionals or you could be doomed to a seriously bad day; not of your own making.

The time to find out your race organizer sucked is not mile 10 on the run!

Thanks for the reminder to never sign up for any of your races!

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 7:55

Post #10 of 75 (10861 views)

Stindiana wrote:

From an earlier thread:

...Don't be fooled by organization that don't have the professional experience to produce these monster logistical sporting events. Are we perfect? No. But there are very few organization that have produced these 2 distances RIGHT for years and years....

The time to find out your race organizer sucked is not mile 10 on the run!

Pretty much the reason why so many flock to WTC events despite the premium $$. It's a safe bet (along with the brand recognition).

Last edited by: spool: Feb 8, 16 7:56

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [adamsimonsen] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 8:11

Post #11 of 75 (10781 views)

Really? We have had rave review here, emailed and in person for years. But no worries.

STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 8:13

Post #12 of 75 (10769 views)

Stindiana wrote:

From an earlier thread:

In the mid 90's we all discussed where and when to race longer than an Oly. Which race had the 'right stuff' to insure it wasn't their issues that made for a really bad day: lack of aid stations and volunteers, lack of security personnel, poor swim course management and a REAL medical team at the end in case we really wanted to push at that distance for a PR.

Don't be fooled by organization that don't have the professional experience to produce these monster logistical sporting events. Are we perfect? No. But there are very few organization that have produced these 2 distances RIGHT for years and years.

My dog could post a race registration, build a cute web page, design a course on map-my... and call themselves a 'triathalon' organizer.

Many Part-time or weekend only organizers DO NOT have what it takes to manage 70.3/140.6 miles of course. Period.

Race with professionals or you could be doomed to a seriously bad day; not of your own making.

The time to find out your race organizer sucked is not mile 10 on the run!

I appreciate your readily apparent passion for the sport. And, from your posts, you certainly seem to be thinking through all the angles constantly. But here is some unsolicited advice: re-think your messaging.

From the responses, you should see its working against you rather than working for you.

I've raced in Indiana. I've raced in Muncie. I am always looking for good races. Non-WTC races. Nothing you write makes me want to enter your races. In fact, the opposite.

Take the advice or don't... but your pontificating doesn't seem to be working for you.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [kny] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 8:28

Post #13 of 75 (10707 views)

kny wrote:

While it may very well be winnable in court, I can assure you that WTC sends out cease-and-desist letters for trademark infringement to races that use in their name or description things like "Half-Iron" or "Iron distance" as, according to WTC, the use of Iron is a direct reference to their "Ironman" trademark. Again, as there is no commonly accepted alternative to describe the distance (WTC says to use long-distance triathlon), fighting this could very well be winnable in court, but no indie races are willing to spend the money to fight WTC on it.

I don't like how WTC has monopolized long-distance triathlon. And one aspect that I do not like is how they have forced independent races to change their names. Can you imagine this happening in the running world? A for-profit company comes in, gets a trademark on the word "marathon" and forces all other half and full marathons to change their name to "long race"? It's inconceivable, yet is the state of affairs in long distance triathlon.

Completely concur. I will continue to do my part in making Ironman and Half Ironman a generic description of the race distance by referring to all such races in the exact same manner and encourage all other race participants to do the same. The indies may not be able to call their races an Ironman or Half Iron but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to play that game.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [kny] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 8:34

Post #14 of 75 (10670 views)

kny wrote:

I don't like how WTC has monopolized long-distance triathlon. And one aspect that I do not like is how they have forced independent races to change their names. Can you imagine this happening in the running world? A for-profit company comes in, gets a trademark on the word "marathon" and forces all other half and full marathons to change their name to "long race"? It's inconceivable, yet is the state of affairs in long distance triathlon.

I know this example gets used a lot, but it is really not applicable. The organization that owns the trademark for "Ironman" developed it in relation to that particular distance. The term "marathon" has centuries of use and was not developed by any specific company in relation to 26.2 miles. WTC (and its predecessors) had every right to trademark the word "Ironman". it is incumbent on them to protect it now....see aspirin, elevator, etc.when you don't protect your trademark.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 8:59

Post #15 of 75 (10549 views)

And you can't even spell "triathlon" correctly?

It's even underlined in red when you type out the post.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [seaunter] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 9:02

Post #16 of 75 (10528 views)

seaunter wrote:

And you can't even spell "triathlon" correctly?

It's even underlined in red when you type out the post.

I'm guessing that was intentional....hence the quotation marks around it.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 9:07

Post #17 of 75 (10504 views)

What brought this thread on? Seems like a good place for another non sequitur.

There is a 70.3 in Muncie, in July, that uses 5 foot tall, orange buoys for their athletes to sight off of.

There is another race series in Muncie what uses 2 white buoys, about the size of a 5 gallon bucket for sighting.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 9:24

Post #18 of 75 (10407 views)

Dan Funk wrote:

Stindiana wrote:

From an earlier thread:

In the mid 90's we all discussed where and when to race longer than an Oly. Which race had the 'right stuff' to insure it wasn't their issues that made for a really bad day: lack of aid stations and volunteers, lack of security personnel, poor swim course management and a REAL medical team at the end in case we really wanted to push at that distance for a PR.

Don't be fooled by organization that don't have the professional experience to produce these monster logistical sporting events. Are we perfect? No. But there are very few organization that have produced these 2 distances RIGHT for years and years.

My dog could post a race registration, build a cute web page, design a course on map-my... and call themselves a 'triathalon' organizer.

Many Part-time or weekend only organizers DO NOT have what it takes to manage 70.3/140.6 miles of course. Period.

Race with professionals or you could be doomed to a seriously bad day; not of your own making.

The time to find out your race organizer sucked is not mile 10 on the run!

I appreciate your readily apparent passion for the sport. And, from your posts, you certainly seem to be thinking through all the angles constantly. But here is some unsolicited advice: re-think your messaging.

From the responses, you should see its working against you rather than working for you.

I've raced in Indiana. I've raced in Muncie. I am always looking for good races. Non-WTC races. Nothing you write makes me want to enter your races. In fact, the opposite.

Take the advice or don't... but your pontificating doesn't seem to be working for you.

I think you pretty much nailed it. Slowtwitch doesn't really take these type of self-promos too well. Whether or not this was intended to be a self-promo is unclear but it certainly reads that way.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 9:29

Post #19 of 75 (10384 views)

Dan Funk wrote:

I appreciate your readily apparent passion for the sport. And, from your posts, you certainly seem to be thinking through all the angles constantly. But here is some unsolicited advice: re-think your messaging.

From the responses, you should see its working against you rather than working for you.

I've raced in Indiana. I've raced in Muncie. I am always looking for good races. Non-WTC races. Nothing you write makes me want to enter your races. In fact, the opposite.

Take the advice or don't... but your pontificating doesn't seem to be working for you.

Couldn't agree more...I am in a similar situation being close to these races and have a bad perception of America Multi-Sport almost exclusively because of Stindiana's ridiculous posts. I often wonder if that poster is actually a competitor looking to make the race organizer look bad.

Or maybe we are all missing the point and this is America Multi-Sport's attempt to get WTC to recognize them and buy out their races?? The whole thing is very odd.

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [M~] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 9:33

Post #20 of 75 (10352 views)

Mark,

We have had two cease and desist letters from the WTC over the years. The first was about 8 years ago when we referred to the Parry Sound half as the Parry Sound Half Ironman. The last was three years ago when we launched the Niagara Falls Half Iron Triathlon. It was the reason we launched the name the race contest and the race was renamed the Niagara Falls Barrelman. You cannot use the word "iron" to describe the distance of a race or you get the letter. While it may be defensible in court we do not have the time or money to fight them. And, to be honest, it was a great opportunity to develop the name contest, which created some awareness in the early days.

John Salt, Founder - MultiSport Canada
Canada's Largest Triathlon Series and Barrelman Niagara Falls
http://www.multisportcanada.com / http://www.niagarafallstriathlon.com
"Discipline Is What You Do When No One Is Watching You"

Last edited by: John Salt: Feb 8, 16 9:39

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 9:51

Post #21 of 75 (10272 views)

Do you make these kinds of posts really late at night after you've have a few (too many) beers?

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Elitist Jerk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 9:53

Post #22 of 75 (10250 views)

Elitist Jerk wrote:

What brought this thread on? Seems like a good place for another non sequitur.

There is a 70.3 in Muncie, in July, that uses 5 foot tall, orange buoys for their athletes to sight off of.

There is another race series in Muncie what uses 2 white buoys, about the size of a 5 gallon bucket for sighting.

Lol. I have only watched a few Ironman races, do they all have big buoys like that? The bigger and more noticeable the better imo.

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Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Joshawa] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 10:18

Post #23 of 75 (10153 views)

Well. We must have been a little testy post SB...did you stay up to late? LOL. Maybe a Panthers fan?

The spelling was on purpose and the swim course comment...how many athletes have gotten out of the water in 24 years=100%.

Buoys same 4' size as anyone else. And happy to drop my signature line when the ST community does like-wise.

And. Only see one other RD in this thread. We don't tell people how to fly airplanes...because we don't know how.

Had an athlete walk up to me last month and state one of the races back in the mid 90's was the best event she'd ever been to in her life. Those are the best comments. Yours...?

STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [M~] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 10:20

Post #24 of 75 (10139 views)

M~ wrote:

kny wrote:

Congratulations on either being a small enough race to fly under the radar of the WTC lawyers or simply ignoring their cease-and-desist letter for use of "Half Iron" in your event name. Either way, you don't see many indie triathlon events still manage to badge with Iron in the name. Kudos!

Pretty sure you can refer to the distance, just not the brand. So Half Iron Distance race would be ok, referring to Ironman would not. I could be wrong. To the OP. How about a little context to your post. Or did you just need to vent?
M~

nope. The correct term is "half distance" if you need to reference the event distance in the name. Otherwise it's like calling it a

Better to instead just give it a unique name like pigman, milkman, barrelman, etc..

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Re: Warning: NOT ALL 70.3 or 140.6 are created equal [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 16 10:30

Post #25 of 75 (10094 views)

I think you would be best served by begging Dan to remove this thread. Paints you in a very bad light, as usual it seems.

What is the point if this thread? Are you trying to get people to register for your races?

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