So, 230 views and no one finds the difference in strokes worthy of any commentary whatsoever??? The leader is a classic Smooth, turning over at around 68 str/min while behind her are about 6 girls turning over at 85-95 str/min, i.e. they are more of the Swinger style in Swim Smooth terminology. If you haven't actually clicked on the link, you should because the two videos play over and over again and you can really get a great mental image in your head to try to replicate in your next swim session. You can focus on being either style, going with whichever feels right for you. Having a good mental image of how you want to swim is crucial IMO.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

i think a bit part of the difference is swim stroke rate is simply there position in the group. the lead girl as clear water...a slow swim rate is ok as she get good efficency.

Put her in 3rd or 4th and her stroke rate will most likely jump to 80+ as she will loose lots of the efficency in the front of her stroke from the very unstable moving water.

So, it s not apple to apple comparaison.... they are in different situation, lead swimmer generally always as slower stroke rate.

---

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

So is it important for someone with a Smooth style to have a strong kick??

Great points Jonnyo! Also probably a good reason why the mid life onset age group swimmer likely does not benefit much from emulating Sun Yang. We're in the middle of a massive pack.

Well, she might go to 80+ but OTOH she might just choose to swim out of the draft in clear water a few meters over from the others. In any case, I was just posting this because I found it very interesting to be able to watch several diff styles of excellent swimming at the same time; I say several because actually there is consid variation among the fast turn-over girls in terms of the way they recover their arms over the water, how they breath, etc. The fact that this same 10 seconds just repeats over and over is nice too so that you can really study their diff styles.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

in a different race where there is faster swimmer than her and she hang for her life...she will go in the draft.....no choice. That s when things change. in this race, she is the best swimmer...she take the lead. As i said, different situation. Put her behind andy potts and let see what happen to her stroke under high pressure.

yess.. it s a excellent video...and what would be even more cool is a under water shot of the same sequence because that is the part that matter in swim style. but i m pretty comfident those ladies all have exceptional catch!!!

---

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Well, acc to the Swim Smooth folks, most Smooths do have a strong kick but OTOH some do not. I came out as a Smooth on their system but only have a mild 2 to 4 beat kick, just never have been able to generate much speed with my legs despite tons of kick sets, so I'm pretty much all pull:)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I do not agree with the commentary of the video. I see things a bit different and agree with the poster above. The lead girl does not have a "long stroke", not at all. That is where I seem to begin having thoughts that this was more of a self promoting video commentary.

Well, maybe not "long" in your eyes but long compared to those swimming behind her, e.g. the lead girl has a noticeably slower turnover rate. But really, I'm not shilling for Swim Smooth and have no connection with them at all except for being on their email list. I simply posted this because I get sick of seeing all these stupid bike threads:))), and I just think it's a very nice video clip worth looking at. The girls behind the leader look like they are working pretty hard vs the leader looks like she's maybe at 80% power. Also, I posted this because, solely my opinion, but I think swimming is much, much more interesting to watch than running or cycling because there are so many more variables involved, e.g. turnover rate, style of recovery of the arms, breathing frequency and side, kicking intensity, etc, etc. In theory, the swim is 1/3 of the race but in terms of ST threads, maybe 1/10 so trying to correct that:)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Agree 100%.

Thanks; clearly though, most of ST has little interest in swimming. Guess it is just a necessary evil which is really kind of a shame given swimming's obvious benefits in terms of working most of the muscles of the body, plus no worries about getting hit by a car in the pool:)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I dont post much, swimming especially, here. Even though I am ASCA level 3 coach and work with swimmers. There are some gross misconceptions about swimming and swim training posted here frequently. There are a few very knowledgeable here too and they know who they are. It is great we get to read some of their stuff.

Well, I've never coached but I've been swimming for 40 yrs and watched tons of swimmers over that time, just trying to see how their strokes vary. I am a "visual learner" and love to watch really good swimmers. One of my all-time favorites was watching Mel Stewart swim the 1000 in a dual meet back around 1991; I sat right behind his lane, maybe 20 ft from the pool, and he took 10 spl while avging 55/100 scy for a 9:10. Dude did not even look like he was even trying:)

So, what do you think are biggest gross misconceptions posted here??? If you want to go there:)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

"clearly though, most of ST has little interest in swimming"

Some of us, though not accomplished swimmers, learn from these threads (although as the previous poster pointed out, there's also some bad advice - I think I know enough to be able to discriminate to some degree). I have personally benefited from your description of what a high elbow should feel like (plate on forearm, water movement down to the knees/shins, etc.).

JEI - Glad I could be of some help!!! Obv I love swimming the most of the three tri sports:)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Really? Serious question, can top swimmers hold similar speeds for prolonged periods with very different stroke rates?

Most definitely yes. Compare Yang and Cochrane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5FlDy3YmDQ

Ya but Yang and Cochrane are 2 diff guys; the real question is can 1 person like the leader in the video up her stroke rate to over 80 spm when she's going pretty hard already. I hate to disagree with jonnyo but I think the answer is no, not over a 1500 m swim. Sure she could go up to 80 spm for 50-100 m but not for the whole 1500. I am simply basing this on my own experience as I myself generally hold around 65-68 spm over 1500 m, or about 18 spl in a 25-m pool, and I just can't hold 80 spm, or 20 spl in 25-m pool, for longer than 100 m tops. I'm just one of those swimmers who has a long stroke and a relatively slow turnover rate.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."