Upgrade to Triathlon bike -

Aug 23, 17 3:06

Post #1 of 16 (2697 views)

Hello everyone!

I would love to get some input on my bike choice as I am really torn and not that experienced.
I am looking to buy:

1. my first triathlon bike
2. a powermeter
3. an aero helmet

For all three I am looking for something that is future proof, good value (!) and that I can keep for quite some time even if I want to for faster times or the full Ironman distance. I like shiny new things just like everyone else but don't want to spend hundreds or thousands on marginal gains.

Background:
Got into triathlon 2 years ago, bought a roadbike with clip-onbars at a sale.
Did Olympic Distance and one 70.3. Now, I am not fast at the moment, very much middle of the pack, mostly because after the 70.3 I pretty much stopped training for way too long bc of other things I didn't take care of enough.
I just started the intermediate trainerroad base training for 70.3s and depending on how it goes will try to shoot for a time between just sub 5 and 5:15 for my next 70.3 (and will take my time training for it).

I already have/use:
1. roadbike + clip-ons, did a bike fit on it
2. indoor trainer
3. trainingpeaks + trainerroad

For my tri-bike I am very much set on Canyon by now since the fit seems good, I can get them within a week and it looks like they are great value:
The options are:

https://www.canyon.com/triathlon/speedmax/
Speedmax CF 9.0 SL 3000€ (reduced from 3500)
the "basic" option at a now reduced price, entry aero wheels included.

Speedmax CF 9.0 Di2 4500€
I would love to have a Di2 because I would like to be able to shift at the basebar (and quite frankly...I really like tech stuff) but 1500€ extra gives me a headache. Would it be worth it if I want to keep the bike in the long term - I feel like I might regret not getting the Di2 in the long-term?

Speedmax CF 9.0 Ltd 5000€ (reduced from 5500)
It does not seem to me that at my level the upgrade from Reynolds SLG Strike to Zipp 404/808 would be worth it but I am happy to be corrected.

Speedmax CF 9.0 SLX 5800€ (reduced from 6500)
Seems way to expensive to me right now, but having a fully integrated bike would of course be great. Would the gains in comparison to i.e. the CF 9.0 Di2 be worth it as a long-term investment for somebody looking for good value for money?

I would be very grateful for any and all input. Thanks a lot everyone!

Last edited by: n3ks0s: Aug 23, 17 3:14

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 23, 17 3:40

Post #2 of 16 (2677 views)

I agree... I do not think Di2 is worth an incremental 1500€. You can get the parts for under 1K and do it yourself. Or, for that much cash, you could go to Dura Ace Di2 or SRAM eTap.

Ditto the wheels. The incremental gain for the Zipps is not worth 1000€.

What about the CF 8.0 for just 2000€? That is a great bike and an incredible price. Then, for the extra 2000€ - 3000€, you could get the perfect upgrades for you (wheels better than the Zipps and Di2). You would have a net better bike at a lower total cost.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Aug 23, 17 9:06

Post #3 of 16 (2587 views)

Thanks!

I checked and would be able to buy the CF 8.0 at 2000 and Reynolds Aero 90C at 1600 (including tubes etc.) and from what I gather that would be a good deal and the wheels are solid.
I also checked on ebay for used Zipps and other aero wheels (no expert at all...as I said) but to me the Reynolds already seem to be a pretty good deal.

However, I do know a bit of bike maintenance but upgrading my bike from mechanical to Di2 to me right now looks a bit like planning a moon landing.
I checked in some of the stores and it looks like right now the Di2 upgrade kit all-in (incl. second shifters etc.) would run out at around 1000-1200€. If I paid for a mechanic that would be closer to 1300€ at least I guess.

Basically I would run out at a price very similar to the 5000€ that the Canyon that includes Zipps and Di2 costs as a ready-made package is right now.
Would you say it is worth the effort to go that route rather than just buy the ready-made bike just to have the slightly better wheels?

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 23, 17 9:41

Post #4 of 16 (2561 views)

If you do not want to mess with the Di2 upgrade, then the Speedmax CF 9.0 Di2 at 4500€ is a pretty sweet deal.

These are a few of my thoughts behind upgrading the 2000€ bike...

I have not priced it recently, but I thought that a Di2 TT upgrade kit, without crankset was under 1000€. (That may be different in the US market, though.)
Di2 upgrade only really makes sense financially if you want to do it yourself.
I would not get Reynolds Aero 90C wheels. I would get either Flo or Hed Jet wheels for a few hundred € less. Or, I would more likely get a 90mm front and disk rear for the same total €, but at a higher performance point.
I would not pay premium money for Zipp wheels, because there are many other ways to spend the incremental cost for much higher incremental performance.

For top performance, without drivetrain upgrading, and optimum use of funds, I would get the 4500€ bike and then use the savings to buy a rear disk wheel. Or, splurge on a good aero helmet, like the Aerohead or Bambino. Or invest in a better power meter.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 23, 17 18:12

Post #5 of 16 (2453 views)

I bought my first powermeter at the beginning of this season and it is a game changer.

I have the Quarq Dzero and love it. It was new either last year or this year, so it is latest technology including both ANT+ and BLE. Training with a powermeter is definitely the way to go to track your progress. I highly recommend this powermeter.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 17 10:33

Post #6 of 16 (2342 views)

I was thinking about doing the thing where I would get a Canyon and upgrade to Di2 to save a few bucks, but a Canyon rep told me that the mechanical framesets are designed for mechanical groups only, and the same for electronic frame/groupsets. They did not specify what, if any, differences there actually are, but thought I'd pass this along in case you were still wondering.

That being said, does anyone out there know what these differences are or if it's actually possible?

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [kjmarti3] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 0:53

Post #7 of 16 (2233 views)

Oh wow thank you. THat is a super important info, I did not even think about that.

Thank you all for your input. I think I will go with the standard Di2 version.
I'll wait for a couple of days to see whether they have something in the outlet and wait whether there are any discounts after eurobikes, otherwise I will just pull the Trigger now.

I guess they Reynolds just be good enough for now and I think I will go for Flos if I want to upgrade my wheels down the road. Thanks for that hint as well, had never heard of them before.

I thought about getting:
Vector 2 refurbished as powermeter (so I can switch between my roadbike and my tri bike)
And the Poc Cerebel as aero helmet from eBay.

What do you guys think?

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 1:53

Post #8 of 16 (2209 views)

I appreciate you have a budget but things I've noticed over the years now that I'm on etap on my road and di2 on my trek SC. I used to be all mechanical with road and Tri bikes.

Power meter - massive difference in my training efficiency this year. Saves time and gets your stronger. Plus, helped me pace my IM very well. I would go quarq or a dual sided / trusted PM. I had stages for a few months (2 of them) and they were waaaaaay off and inconsistent. Quarq has been spot on and the same for both road and Tri. Plus trainer road Powet match has been great for placing indoor and outdoor.

Electronic shifting - you can switch to etap for. Mechanical later and the cables shouldnt be a issue on the frame. I did that with my older tarmac sworks and there are a few "ugly" shift cables but saved me a lot of money and my frame is still awesome. I used the money and upgrade my Tri bike wheels to Zipp 808 instead. If you go di2 now or electronic now (recommended), then just spend a little now. Ultegra di2 is great as well and weight isn't an issue on the Tri bike. Electronic shifting is a big advantage for staying smooth over the course of the race. Just so much easier to keep the same effort over any terrain. Saves your legs for running for sure!

Wheels - I'd do wheels last or find a 2nd hand set. Maybe even just a deeper rear to pair with the Reynolds front. I wouldve gone disc but got a deal on 808's and just leave them on all year. Mostly because I train indoors like 90% of the time.

Good luck! Canyon looks awesome and fast. I live in London and really debated getting one for a long time but got the SC instead.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 2:09

Post #9 of 16 (2202 views)

I heard good things both about quarq and about power2max but would like to easily switch between bikes. Do you think Garmin vectors are well-tested enough by now? (I can get them at a nice discount and would be able to check how well they perform relative to my tacx neo trainer,which should be quite accurate).

My next purchase later on would probably be a disc but that would be some time down the road. I first need to survive the trainerroad program after getting fully back into training.:-)

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 2:24

Post #10 of 16 (2194 views)

Makes sense on wanting to switch PM between bikes. Also easier to travel within you use hotel gym bikes. I had to buy 2 quarqs for both bikes but ride different crank lengths so price wasn't much different. I'm not sure on Garmin accurate. Heard first gen wasn't great but maybe 2nd gen is better? My friend has power tap pedals and has been happy. As long as it's consistent, doesn't matter what the number is. Check out DC rainmakers reviews (though, I can't trust the stages gen 2 review since I've had bad experiences with 2 sets).

Can you try the pedals with the neo and return them? I have a neo as well and my quarqs are pretty much spot on, which is why I use t road power match now. Stages was not even close to neo at different efforts.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 2:50

Post #11 of 16 (2179 views)

Yeah I think so, they have normal guarantee and claim to have good accuracy, so if they are all over the place I should be able to return them.

Do you have any advice on aero helmets? I find so many conflicting reviews and opinions.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 3:21

Post #12 of 16 (2166 views)

n3ks0s wrote:

Do you have any advice on aero helmets? I find so many conflicting reviews and opinions.

I have read every wind tunnel review of every aero helmet I have been able to find. The problem is that helmets are personal, and one that may be good for you might suck for the guy testing in the tunnel. So, I looked for helmets that seem to test well in multiple positions for multiple testers, not necessarily the absolute best helmet. And, I factor cost heavily, because there is so much unknown in the selection.

I chose the Bell Javelin at $80 on sale. The Giro Advantage 2 is basically the same and the same price. These helmets is the pragmatic winners, because they tests well in multiple positions and are very inexpensive.

The other helmets that test better in multiple positions are the Kask Bambino and Giro Aerohead. However, those are a couple hundred dollars more expensive. I like the Aerohead, so I will likely buy one in the next year or so, because I am getting faster on the bike, and that helmet could help me gain a few more seconds.

In a perfect world, I would go to a wind tunnel with a trunk full of helmets and find THE helmet that test best for me. However, that would probably cost me $1K, so I am content with my $80 helmet until I get my next upgrade bug.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 3:34

Post #13 of 16 (2156 views)

Helmets are tougher because it depends on your position. Search the forum and you'll see a good thread on the aerohead and LG 09 (?). Those seem like the 2 that work for a lot of people and positions.

I have the giro aerohead ultimate (tt version with no vents). I got a great deal on one and it works great in almost every condition. I did a pretty cold race this year so heat wasn't an issue. I imagine the vented version is a little cooler but I think all aero lids are somewhat warm. I've never been on a track test just got fitted with the helmet and it seems very fast. This is one example, but my friend put out 10-15% more power in a recent race and I went faster. Thus he went like 45min slower on the run (we are about the same in terms of fitness). His bike and position isn't optimised and a little older but I had a sleeve aero suit and the helmet which seemed like it made a huge difference.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 10:42

Post #14 of 16 (2076 views)

FWIW-

Used Trek Speedconcept (check the classifieds here)

New Quarq or Stages.

New Giro Aerohead

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [n3ks0s] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 17 11:04

Post #15 of 16 (2064 views)

n3ks0s wrote:

Do you think Garmin vectors are well-tested enough by now? (I can get them at a nice discount and would be able to check how well they perform relative to my tacx neo trainer,which should be quite accurate).

The reviews and opinions I have read, and my personal purchase decision, are to skip the Garmin Vectors for now. The first and 2nd gen require more hassle to swap between bikes than the PowerTap, so the consensus is that the Vectors need to be a lot cheaper than PowerTap P1 to make them worthwhile. And, supposedly, the 3rd gen vectors may be forthcoming. No way I would buy Vectors unless they were 25% cheaper than P1 pedals. And even then, you will have a cheap set of Vectors and wish you had the Vector 3 or P1 pretty soon after.

Re: Upgrade to Triathlon bike - [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 1:42

Post #16 of 16 (1929 views)

thank you all so much. It helped a lot.

I just pulled the trigger on the Speedmax Di2 brand new and in stock at a € 500 discount during the sale right now.
Sometimes it pays off to be hesitant for another 2 days. :D

So excited - thanks again!

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