And trying to show that there are many people upset by and who don't have this bubbling spring of passionate love for dogs at all and see them in quite a different light. I am trying to show another perspective - I see people who seem to think everyone must love my dog as much as I do cause its soo cute and loyal etc. I am trying to show that some people have deep fears of dogs and that getting attacked or barked at can really ruin someone's day. And telling them to get over it never really works - sure I'm over it but there is always discomfort - and for you to take your dog out to the paths that I train on and let him run free to chase me around really causes me stress and takes pleasure out of my rides. I think it comes down to laziness and the fact people dont want to run holding on to a leash (or 5 as the case may be?)

while i love dogs (yellow labs), and you do have some valid points, your anti-dog crusade is just hilarious. bring on the gasoline! dog-lovers unite!

Hello Itheostega and All,



Cheers,

Neal

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Er...you do know that slowman is a dog lover don't you???

Nearly got nailed by a dog on a leash yesterday...regular road with a bike lane, I'm in the aerobars hammering and this dog on a long leash comes tearing out in front of me from the sidewalk...manage to swerve around it, lucky there was no traffic in the next lane...a nice shout of "BITCH" at the owner/dog sufficed to make me feel better. I would not have reacted well if I'd hit the beast at that speed though...

Bike paths are best avoided for anything other than tourist activities or keeping away from rush hour traffic (spinning only). Plenty of hazards other than dogs. Dogs that like to chase bikes or people should be kept on short leashes. Owners who don't control their animals shouldn't be allowed to have pets but responsibility is hardly the modern way...

---

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

I am an unabashed dog lover - we typically have three to five dogs in our house. But - if anybody understands canine behaviour, they understand things like instinct, and prey drive, and the feral nature of even domestic animals - especially in packs. Dogs should be on leashes, unless they are in contained areas with fences that are high enough to keep them contained. Dog owners who don't leash their dogs need to bear full responsibility for the behavior of those dogs. I've had to pull my dogs out of fights with unleashed dogs - often to the pain of the unleashed dog - when their owners were stupid enough to think that calling Fluffy back was enough to overcome generations of instinct. The problem is not the dogs - it's the incredibly stupid, irresponsible and dangerous owners who let them go unleashed, and the laws that fail to punish them adequately.

Being a confrontational prick and generalizing dog owners as crazy is not exactly the best way to get your point across. Perhaps you should work on your delivery.

FWIW, my dogs don't go out unleashed, especially near bike paths and streets.

---

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

Yes, I agree. People should follow rules. But they don't. That extends far beyond the subject of leashed dogs in public places. So, if dogs bother this guy as much as he says they do (he clearly has a phobia of dog...we get it) then why not solve the problem and simply ride elsewhere? People change their routes for a number of reasons - road conditions, traffic, bad neighborhoods, et cetera. Some people would just rather complain about than solve their problems and I find these sorts of people intolerable.

Why is it that every time I find a nice bike path I see a large sign saying "Dogs must be kept on a leash at all times" and then on my ride encounter hordes of unleashed, excited dogs that give chase and cause lots of near accidents/ stress?

Why? Two main reasons:

1. There are a lot of negligent dog owners.
2. The general decline in common sense and civility in our soceity.

I used to run with my dog, off leash on trails. However, he was very well trained and heeled on command. I also never let him off the leash on public paths where there were lots of other people. I would keep him on the leash when running with him in places like that, then wait until we got to an appropriate place and let him off.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

"Some people would just rather complain about than solve their problems and I find these sorts of people intolerable"

I would tend to agree with you that the easiest thing to do is just change your route. However, there is something to be said for standing up against people who are being dumb, rude, ignorant, selfish and completely lacking in common sense, to say nothing of breaking the law! The problem as I see it is that there seem to be an increasing number if encounters these days in all situations with the, dumb, rude, ignorant, selfish and no common sense crowd. Their ranks are, unfortunatly, growing rapidly!!

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I agree with you. However, standing up on a triathlon message board is not standing up. It's whining. There are a lot of people on this little planet and we all have our special interests. Since I know I'm never perfect (yes, I sometimes break the law when I ride my bike and, even when I don't, many motorists are generally unhappy that cyclists are on the street and some don't feel we belong there) I choose to forgive others' and try to find a place to do my own thing where I don't have to compete for space or safety.

For some reason, people have a difficult time turning a mirror on themselves and actually considering that what *they* love to do might infuriate someone else. Just because riding your bike or walking your dog is special to you doesn't mean everyone else has to accommodate you with a smile. The lack of common-sense in the world is only surpassed by individuals' feelings of personal entitlement and lack of respect for others' interests.

Thank you. I thought i was going to read this entire thread before someone got out the 'biggest pussy' award. What's next, bunnies & chipmunks?

Scott

---

The fatfoot is coming....

This stuff works great! Just the smell of it in the air gets them running away. I have only needed to use it a few times. But as a last resort to its better than bite marks or road rash.

http://www.tbotech.com/bearspray.htm

Word up.

There aren't "bad' dogs...only irresponsible owners.

---

---

mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Danno,

I would add this, I think many jurisdictions have laws which state "leash or voice command", so that a leash is not entirely necessary. However, the "voice command" gives many a reason to not use a leash, even for a disobedient dog. Louisville is now looking into a "violent breed" law, making it very expensive or impossible for people to own certain breeds (pit bull).

Now, the only problem I have is owners who don't clean up after their dogs in public places. That does make we want to throw a rock at the owner.

This is why I miss the old pumps that would go under your crossbar. I became particularly adept at dog polo. Now I just have this can of "bear mace". You have to watch the wind but man does it do a job!

Dogs are like toddlers; completely unpredictable, have little spatial awareness and cannot be expected to make rational decisions. If you own a dog and allow them to put others at risk, you are an idiot. If you, as a non-dog-owner, expect a dog to act like anything other than a toddler, you fall into that category as well. Don't take your frustrations out on animals (poison, rocks etc.) when they're only doing what comes natural; it's the moron who allows your safety to be jeopardized who should pay the price.

This is, of course, barring an attack, in which case I fully support taking whatever action is required to make sure that animal never takes another breath of fresh air again. I own dogs & love 'em like family, but a dangerous domesticated animal has no place in society.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Late last fall I was riding and almost got hit by a happy dog on a leash, no owner, but he did have a leash. Missed the dog then saw this lady running like mad yelling "sit!!! sit!!!" Didn't want to get hit/hit a canine but in retrospect the scene was pretty funny.

Now when a three cows ran across the road during a bike rally in north Texas a few years ago - at first I laughed, then I thought about what it would be like to get sideswiped by a running cow.....


.

If he ever bit somebody shoot the owner (me) not our dog.

Mace my dog and your life is over. Not a threat but a promise. Dog haters are psychos who should be eliminated.

Are you serious? Please tell me you're kidding. Blame you, not your dog, if he bites someone, but you claim you'll kill someone who takes non-lethal action to protect themselves against your dog in the event of an attack?

You're insane.

If any dog attacks me in a public area without provocation, the dog dies instantly and I own your house. Mace would be your best-case scenario.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Here's a local story from last week...took 3 incidents with these particular dogs before someone got mauled by them and seriously injured.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1083992.html

As far as the issue of location for training a colleague of mine was recently killed in a motor cycle accident and it made me stop riding in traffic. There are just too many people on the phone, stoned, distracted etc.
And the roads are not exactly well designed for cyclists around here (mostly highways or roads with tiny or non existent shoulders and massive rush hour traffic) So I now seek to do all my riding on some 200 miles of hardpack towpath and other trails I can find throughout NJ. I also realize that people like dogs and want to play but there are designated areas for that - the paths I am talking about have clear signs saying the dogs should be leashed and most of them aren't - I think I will go on some rides where I just stop and talk to owners about why they don't follow the rules - if I do this for a while it may bring about some change...

I admit I love to let my dog run free. But these discussions have made me reconsider my behavior, especially when we're on a bike trail.

---

-----------------------------------------------------

Funny that this thread is here. I was riding the otherday somewhere near Pilot Mountain in North Carolina - I was just passing through and I was out for a ride. Strange area for me and I was in the middle of nowwhere on this two hour ride when I came across these three unleashed and rough looking dogs. They were barking and growling something fierce. I though I was done for and was thinking of an exit strategy quickly. However, the dogs paid no attention to me other than a passing glance. They were digging and pushing at a big hollow log. As I passed, I suspected that they had chased something( rabbit, cat . .) in there and were terrorizing it. Lucky for me!

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

If I had to change my route for every dog that chases me in my rural area, I would have no routes. You should not have to change your route. BTW, our county's policy on this is call us when you get mauled.

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

"You should not have to change your route."

My mom always told me that life's not fair. I do stuff every day that I shouldn't *have* to do - like avoid being hit by cars while riding my bike. I shouldn't *have* to change my route, but hell, I make the decision every day to hop on my bike so it's a situation into which I willingly put myself. I don't ride in certain places because it's too dangerous because it's much easier and more effective to change my route than to bitch about it.

Agreed. I'm more of a cat person but I've known some friends dogs pretty well over the years. Can't blame the dogs for having instincts, can blame the owners for not keeping control. There are some downright nasty dogs around but they've either been bred or mistreated to be that way so that's still down to the owners.

---

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)