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USAT promoting snorkels in races
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Just got a USAT email that was very bullish on the use of snorkels in races. On first thought I think using a snorkels would be just as fast and probably less taxing than not using one. However something just feels more wrong here then a lot of the other silly looking yet legal ways I try to shave seconds off my race time.

https://www.teamusa.org/...NndvZm81Zk1PeGt6TCJ9
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [tritontoby] [ In reply to ]
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As noted in the comments under the article, they aren't allowed in IM or 70.3 races. I personally don't think they are an advantage due to the loss of rotation, and I suspect that USAT is putting this out there to turn around declining participation and to encourage newbies who might not otherwise do a triathlon.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [tritontoby] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say not promoting but, rather, allowing them. I'd be hesitant to recommend anyone race and open water leg using a snorkel (unless one plans to be at the far back of the pack). You're going to swallow water using one. Fellow competitors are going to clip when they pass. It might increase the business of some dentists...

#swimmingmatters
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The Doctor (#12)

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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [LazyEP] [ In reply to ]
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The softening of the swim burden in triathlon sucks. Self seeded starts, wetsuits in mid 70s temps (see 70.3 WC), swim leg cancellations because the worst swimmers are at risk, and now this are all symptomatic of the duathlonification of this sport. I wish swimming counted for more in this sport. Let’s stop managing to the back of the pack. I really don’t care if the sport doesn’t grow, as long as it can hold relatively steady.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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I kind of agree. Even wave starts seem unnecessary for most triathlon races. Unless a race is well north of 300 athletes, most triathlons could easily be run with a single mass start. Advanced and fast swimmers can place themselves at the front, beginner and less strong swimmers can place themselves at the back (or just wait a couple of seconds before starting) and away they all go.

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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [tritontoby] [ In reply to ]
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I honestly think this is more of an effort to get more folks to participate in triathlon in general, esp those older folks with disposable income but necks that aren't so good!

Whatever it takes to make the swim easier and more accessible for newbies at the sprint/oly level should be welcomed, short of unfair cheating advantages.

Once they step up to 70.3 and/or IM, they'll have enough experience (hopefully) to know whether to commit to this thing long-term or not. But first step is getting the folks on the fence (of which the VAST majority is due to swim anxiety) to just do some shorter tris.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. Isn't funny that duathlons are poorly attended but lots of people don't want a significant swim

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, wussification of triathlon.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Poon wrote:
The softening of the swim burden in triathlon sucks. Self seeded starts, wetsuits in mid 70s temps (see 70.3 WC), swim leg cancellations because the worst swimmers are at risk, and now this are all symptomatic of the duathlonification of this sport. I wish swimming counted for more in this sport. Let’s stop managing to the back of the pack. I really don’t care if the sport doesn’t grow, as long as it can hold relatively steady.

Is there evidence it's doing that, though? Maybe in the big-name races but how about the smaller races? Especially the short course races - not everyone does 70.3 and above and we rely on the smaller races to be around.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [tritontoby] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, I had no idea that snorkels were allowed by USAT even for awards and qualifications.

If one cannot swim competently, either get a coach and train or enter a duathlon. Snorkels should only be allowed in the PC division.

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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Poon wrote:
The softening of the swim burden in triathlon sucks. Self seeded starts, wetsuits in mid 70s temps (see 70.3 WC), swim leg cancellations because the worst swimmers are at risk, and now this are all symptomatic of the duathlonification of this sport. I wish swimming counted for more in this sport. Let’s stop managing to the back of the pack. I really don’t care if the sport doesn’t grow, as long as it can hold relatively steady.

Agree 100%. I'll be the race director for a triathlon this year (super sprint/sprint/olympic distances). It's the first year for the event and I'm new to the whole organizing thing. Our venue is a boat club where we have access to 320 feet of dock for a start. We're predicting less than 100 competitors. I would like a dive start with athletes seeded by registration date. It encourages early registration by stronger athletes (who are usually the last to sign up), gives the event a unique/"pro" character. The first swim turn is a left hander and athletes choosing to dive will be seeded on the left side of the T. Athletes choosing to start in the water (with one hand on the pontoon) will start to the right of the T. For me it's win-win because if you're a weaker swimmer you know that immediately you don't have to deal with the dishwasher of stronger swimmers. They've already jumped in the water. On the competitive side you now have the best swimmers jockeying for position to get to the first bouy at 200m.

The response I got from our assigned technical director for our governing body was a flat, "no dive starts. It makes unfair competition and assumes a level of skill". I was shocked. Not even a discussion about it. My race is aimed at amateurs and new triathletes. We're marketing our super-sprint specifically as a "youth" race and encouraging the local kids swim club to participate. We're not forcing athletes to take the dive start option and with upcoming Canada Games and Olympics having Mixed Relay components I thought a dive start would be great practice.

In the end it will mean less organizing on my part (no need to "stable" off sections of the dock) but it's disappointing that because there's an "assumption of skill" associated with a task that it wouldn't be allowed.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I kind of agree. Even wave starts seem unnecessary for most triathlon races. Unless a race is well north of 300 athletes, most triathlons could easily be run with a single mass start. Advanced and fast swimmers can place themselves at the front, beginner and less strong swimmers can place themselves at the back (or just wait a couple of seconds before starting) and away they all go.

I think the wave starts has more to do with spreading the field out to allow for less packs on the bike than it does for the swim itself.
That and the lifeguards are better able to see what is happening to 10 groups of 30 instead of 1 group of 300.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed.

Furthermore, if you're new to tri or uncomfortable with the swim why don't you try a sprint with a pool swim to see how it goes? You are seeded based on expected finish time (only 300m), get to take a break every 50m if needed and likely won't have to deal with the churn and flailing arms/legs of an open water swim. On top of all that there's a black line on the floor to keep you pointed straight! Can't turn your head to breathe - no worries, just swim backstroke! My first tri was just such an event. Hell I still do it these days (its St. Patty's weekend and sponsored by a brewery so beer at finish line and lots of fun).

Despite my own lackluster performance as a swimmer I whole heatedly agree - the swim doesn't need to be any easier than it already is.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [tri_curious] [ In reply to ]
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So I've always thought the use of snorkels in training by the triathletes I've seen on youtube (Taren specifically) was weird. Thought it sort of encouraged the wrong thing. Knowing that they're legal at USAT events is helpful, but I'm still not using one.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
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HandHeartCrown wrote:
Poon wrote:
The softening of the swim burden in triathlon sucks. Self seeded starts, wetsuits in mid 70s temps (see 70.3 WC), swim leg cancellations because the worst swimmers are at risk, and now this are all symptomatic of the duathlonification of this sport. I wish swimming counted for more in this sport. Let’s stop managing to the back of the pack. I really don’t care if the sport doesn’t grow, as long as it can hold relatively steady.


Is there evidence it's doing that, though? Maybe in the big-name races but how about the smaller races? Especially the short course races - not everyone does 70.3 and above and we rely on the smaller races to be around.

A couple of points:
1. Sport has been shrinking over the years, last year it was holding steady. But, it hasn't been bringing in new people, and especially not the younger folks. USAT registration numbers back this up.
2. Swimming has been named repeatedly as the #1 barrier to entry across the board. The situation isn't improved by the huge amount of press each triathlon swim death gets. Mass starts aren't for everybody, even experienced swimmers have died or had serious injuries during the swim.
3. Smaller races have been going away, and even the big branded races either aren't selling out or are selling out much more slowly. Event organizers are scrambling to put on beginner friendly races w pool swims, but that isn't a viable solution all the time. This topic is always discussed extensively at tri business conferences, happy hours, and forums like this!
4. In a perfect world, everybody would have access to swim instruction, masters swim programs, decent pools, and open water swim clinic for beginners. News flash: world isn't perfect.
5. This is a tough room to play, this forum, but everybody had a first race, bad race, or disaster swim. I kinda hope you guys are more civil when there's a deer in the headlights rookie next to you in transition.

Karen ST Concierge
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Poon wrote:
The softening of the swim burden in triathlon sucks. Self seeded starts, wetsuits in mid 70s temps (see 70.3 WC), swim leg cancellations because the worst swimmers are at risk, and now this are all symptomatic of the duathlonification of this sport. I wish swimming counted for more in this sport. Let’s stop managing to the back of the pack. I really don’t care if the sport doesn’t grow, as long as it can hold relatively steady.

^^^^
This (x10!)

Sr. Salitre
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I honestly think this is more of an effort to get more folks to participate in triathlon in general, esp those older folks with disposable income but necks that aren't so good!

Whatever it takes to make the swim easier and more accessible for newbies at the sprint/oly level should be welcomed, short of unfair cheating advantages.

Once they step up to 70.3 and/or IM, they'll have enough experience (hopefully) to know whether to commit to this thing long-term or not. But first step is getting the folks on the fence (of which the VAST majority is due to swim anxiety) to just do some shorter tris.

I don't think they should be making the swim easier, but they should contribute to making it more achievable. What can they do to assist people get better at swimming? Some sort of collaboration with coaches, or race directors? Get people out into the open water more, or in advance of races to practice etc.....
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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STConcierge wrote:
4. In a perfect world, everybody would have access to swim instruction, masters swim programs, decent pools, and open water swim clinic for beginners. News flash: world isn't perfect.
5. This is a tough room to play, this forum, but everybody had a first race, bad race, or disaster swim. I kinda hope you guys are more civil when there's a deer in the headlights rookie next to you in transition.

Agree that the world isn't perfect. A person will survive if they can't do a triathlon until they have access to swim instruction. I think most of us here understand rookie nerves. I don't have a problem with snorkels being allowed in tris. I did chuckle at the opening line in the story - No one chooses triathlon for its simplicity. I don't think stating this in the opening line of a story helps grow tri. I think tri at its essence is a simple sport combining three activities that most of us did (or at least used to do) as children.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [tritontoby] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say triathletes are welcome to use one, they should just prepare to go slower than they would without, have terrible sighting, and risk inhaling a tube-full of water. That last one should be a headache at best (and nightmare at worst) for the race directors. They will have to have more lifeguards ready to make rescues of swimmers gagging and coughing up a lungful of water. Not to make light of a situation, but there have been some deaths in the swim portions of triathlons; the last thing we need is more deaths caused by someone gagging on a tube full of water, panicking, getting steamrolled by passing swimmers, sinking, and drowning.

I'm going to guess that the snorkel is a possible allowance for less-experienced swimmers. These less-experienced swimmers may not have the comfort in the water to cough out inhaled water without panicking.
Last edited by: 140triguy: Mar 21, 18 13:29
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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140triguy wrote:
I'd say triathletes are welcome to use one, they should just prepare to go slower than they would without, have terrible sighting, and risk inhaling a tube-full of water. That last one should be a headache at best (and nightmare at worst) for the race directors. They will have to have more lifeguards ready to make rescues of swimmers gagging and coughing up a lungful of water. Not to make light of a situation, but there have been some deaths in the swim portions of triathlons; the last thing we need is more deaths caused by someone gagging on a tube full of water, panicking, getting steamrolled by passing swimmers, sinking, and drowning.

Overstating a bit? Drowning due to snorkel?! Please.

I think we experienced triathletes are getting a little too much of ourselves on this thread. Triathlon needs to hold steady and fight the decline in participating numbers. The swim is the #1 enemy of newby triathletes.

It's not wussification - snorkel or not, the swim is going to be really hard for all non-swim background new triathletes. We experienced folks can go as fast as we want - these newbs aren't slowing us down any, and are subsidizing our sport - without them, our races wouldn't happen!
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Have you ever inhaled a mouthful of water in a race? Who hasn't? It's not comfortable or fun. Ever done that using a snorkel? Cough cough, stand up in the pool or grab a lane rope, cough cough for a minute, then back on your way. There's probably not as much shallow water and certainly no lane ropes in most OW tris.
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [tritontoby] [ In reply to ]
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For those on here that have used a snorkel, do you swim faster with it?

I thought it was a training tool for technique purposes.

Formerly DrD
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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How about a snorkel wave?
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Re: USAT promoting snorkels in races [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I think people would be surprised at the amount of snorkeling fatalities that occur annually. These folks don't have an elevated heart rate and aren't trying to swim fast.

I believe snorkel use will make it harder for lifeguards to recognize someone under stress in the craziness of the swim. Inexperienced swimmers using a snorkel in a race could be a mistake. It doesn't make it easier to breath necessarily, and swim snorkels don't come with dry top technology to keep water out. Also how do the lifeguards make sure everyone stays on track?

In my opinion, teaching people to be more comfortable in the water is a better choice than allowing snorkels.

jake

Get outside!
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