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USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this
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part-1 of a 2-part series on the federation is up now, on the home page. here is a snippet from part-2, tomorrow:

"What did the Board make public to its members? All eligible voters – annual members – were asked to vote for a number of bylaw changes, and each side weighed in, in some cases on Slowtwitch. Opinion pieces by Board members were written, and ballot measures were explained, on why the Federation needs to move to Colorado; on why the “Sunshine Policy” needed to be amended, or to not be amended; on why the percentage of elites on the Board should be changed from 25 percent to 20. But no one – on either side – provided context. Members were asked to blithely cast a vote ignorant of the real issues motivating the two Board cohorts."

of everything that's happened on the board - bearing in mind that there are no bad people on this board, they all work hard, they're all volunteers, and they do a lot of good work and keep the federation running smooth - my big complaint is the lack of transparency. to me, the worst of it is when board members are asked to vote for resolutions but you don't know the back story. you don't know the context of what you're voting on. you don't know that these resolutions may just be tactics used in an internecine board fight. you're pawns in this fight, but you don't know your pawns. when you're asked to vote to change USAT's transparency requirements you don't know that it may well be about whether one side has to hand private documents over to the other side.

further, there is no way to cover this - for outside media, whether slowtwitch or other - to report on this, because your board members are bound to some kind of masonic lodge type secrecy.

i find this infuriating.

most of you don't care because you do this for fun. just don't complain to me when you have less fun available to you in the form of available, safe races in your area, because USAT was so busy fighting itself that it forgot to focus on its core mission.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Nov 12, 14 13:46
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Ahh, but what is USATs core mission? As Jane blow age grouper I want safe, fun races but really their mandate as the NGB is to produce for USOC. Jane and Joe Blow age groupers have little to do with that.

Is why US Masters Swimming and USA Swimming treated very differently. One is a pipeline for the USOC and the other about participation. USAT struggles with the hybrid and probably doesn't do an awesome job of other.

Will read the articles. Particularly interested in light of the recent Outside article on USA Swimming and sex abuse as how it reflects on secrecy and NGBs.
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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most of you don't care because you do this for fun. just don't complain to me when you have less fun available to you in the form of available, safe races in your area, because USAT was so busy fighting itself that it forgot to focus on its core mission.


And there is the issue. What is it's core mission? Provide services for AG athletes, support Olympic development, provide award monies for the pros?? As an average AG athlete, the first item is all that I want my dues going to. But from what I read, the primary disagreements involve the pros feeding off of AG athlete's dues. Please correct me where I am wrong.

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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [bhc] [ In reply to ]
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bhc wrote:
And there is the issue. What is it's core mission? Provide services for AG athletes, support Olympic development, provide award monies for the pros?? As an average AG athlete, the first item is all that I want my dues going to. But from what I read, the primary disagreements involve the pros feeding off of AG athlete's dues. Please correct me where I am wrong.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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Several positive developments will spin off from this difficult month. Carlson further reported that, "both Scherr and Jack Weiss agreed the annual bill for USA Triathlon's support of the elite program is $550,000, while the USOC's contributions were $250,000 base and roughly $500,000 in [products and services]. Weiss—and I—have been saying for quite some time that USA Triathlon subsidizes the Olympic triathlon program to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars annually from the general—member funded—budget (not counting the elite's share of the brick & mortar, and of several hundred thousand dollars in overhead, payroll costs and burden).

While Weiss and I have no problem with this, it galls both of us that USAT's national office just will not admit this, and uses Enron math to hide this fact. Now that this is out there, perhaps we can have a grown up discussion about how the members can feel fully vested in their investment in the elite program.

From an OpEd by Dan, nearly a decade ago.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...s/opinion/usoc2.html

John




Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I have a feeling that most people wouldnt notice because they simply dont pay any attention beyond getting the card in the mail that knocks a few bucks off race registration. The result is that theres no pressure for the board to be less masonic like.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Dan,

The same thing popped into my head, I remember reading the board meeting minutes when the back and forth about Melissa Merson and ex officio and invitations was happening, I knew someting was up but without the context it didn't mean anything. I applaud you for being able to put it all together.

However, it seems from your article that you had information in March on Stephen Sexton's lawsuit and the outcome. Wasn't that news in and of itself?

I am not by and large sympathetic to the wants of itu-style pros in USAT, I think that we should have two separate NGBs just as swimming does; however, a board member having to sue to be granted access to emails of other board members and a membership list seems to be news in its own right.
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [xterratri] [ In reply to ]
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"Ahh, but what is USATs core mission? As Jane blow age grouper I want safe, fun races but really their mandate as the NGB is to produce for USOC."

you need to read USAT's mission statement. there are something like 16 themes in that mission statement, and almost none of it has anything to do with "producing for the USOC."

this isn't to say that it might not become a tool of the USOC. wrote about USAT's Evolving Mission back in 2011. i think your hope is that it not evolve in that direction too much.

if you don't want that to happen, best to consider whether you have some small part to play in that. it might just be to write your representative on the board, and explain to him that you're going to be paying attention to what the board does between now and his next election.

i might also add that when i and lew kidder rewrote all the voting, election and representation bylaws back in 2004 or so, we gave the board members 1 year terms. YOU changed that, if you're a USAT annual member. perhaps that was, upon reflection, unwise.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Kevin in MD] [ In reply to ]
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"However, it seems from your article that you had information in March on Stephen Sexton's lawsuit and the outcome. Wasn't that news in and of itself?"

what i knew in march was that steve sexton had obtained the right to read emails between board members. to me, knowing our readership, that did not in itself reach the level of news our readers could chew.

but i noted that event, and almost from that day until this i've been trying to get to the bottom of what happened in 2012 that seemed to place us on the current path. it took me MANY months to see those emails myself. i'm publishing now because i finally have all the facts, or most of the facts. at least i think i do.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Same old BS. The ITU/USOC board members fighting with the board members representing the AG and AG race directors. ~$16M in AG membership fees being drained by the minority elite athletes via lawsuits. I think we are finally at a point where there should be a clean break and create two organizations. See how the minority likes it when $16M a year budget walks out the door.

..
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [dogmile] [ In reply to ]
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i am sympathetic with your view, but i disagree and i'll tell you why.

one of the reasons USAT is as strong as it is is because of the legal monopoly granted it to it by federal statute. the olympic tie also grants USAT the ability to get involved in things like youth development, olympic development, coaching certification, etc., which it could do without the federation tie, but it would be an uphill slog. there's an imprimatur stamped on USAT's efforts when it's part of the federation system.

also, USAT makes a lot of money, and spends a lot of money, on its national championship weekend. it qualifies people for world championships. all that goes away when you don't have the right to qualify anybody for anything, and your'e not a national anything.

my guess, USAT damned near makes enough money off that one weekend to pay for half or more of everything it spends on olympic development.

the problem is trying to get everyone to pull on one end of the rope.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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The thing is 90% of the membership doesn't care about any of that.

The main reason you have so many members is; it is the price for entry in to a lot of races. Imagine if you didn't need a USAT license to race WTC and Rev3 races or any of the iconic classics ... in the meantime we have the elite board members wasting our time, money, and resources on a power struggle for voting power.

If you put it to a vote and asked members if we should drop the annual fee by $10 a year and break from the USOC... that would likely pass pretty easily. (If you could get any sort of voter turn out, which is questionable)

..
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [dogmile] [ In reply to ]
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"The thing is 90% of the membership doesn't care about any of that.... The main reason you have so many members is; it is the price for entry in to a lot of races."

you're absolutely right. and the poll currently up on the side of the page bears that out.

but the readers make an assumption that the sport - like the world's current climate and mean temperature, and social security - is always going to be there for them. i'm suggesting that a very little bit of time, and a very small effort, on behalf of a reasonable percentage of enthusiasts, might help cement the future of an activity that means a lot to them.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"The thing is 90% of the membership doesn't care about any of that.... The main reason you have so many members is; it is the price for entry in to a lot of races."

you're absolutely right. and the poll currently up on the side of the page bears that out.

but the readers make an assumption that the sport - like the world's current climate and mean temperature, and social security - is always going to be there for them. i'm suggesting that a very little bit of time, and a very small effort, on behalf of a reasonable percentage of enthusiasts, might help cement the future of an activity that means a lot to them.

I do not like your poll questions. One choice should be do I have a choice? Meaning, if I am not a member, I cannot be rank and be on TeamUSA. So, would I have a choice?

.




Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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dave, in your case you can assume that membership in USAT is not a requirement to race at natls and qualify for worlds. it's just, do you value membership for its own sake. for example, you're a member of the sierra club maybe, or the ACLU, or the NRA, or mensa. would you be a member of USAT because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to as a means to getting something else you want (insurance, a qualifying slot, etc).

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I can see that point. Upon reading the article I asked myself, "What does Shoemaker really want? What's his vision of a perfect USAT?" What's the opposing vision?

I have no resource to draw upon to pick sides.

There's sometimes value to keeping conflict internal and putting forth a united public face. But it's also unwise to cut the most important stakeholders - the members - out of the dialog.
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
dave, in your case you can assume that membership in USAT is not a requirement to race at natls and qualify for worlds. it's just, do you value membership for its own sake. for example, you're a member of the sierra club maybe, or the ACLU, or the NRA, or mensa. would you be a member of USAT because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to as a means to getting something else you want (insurance, a qualifying slot, etc).

I value the membership of what USAT gives with it. I love their magazine. I love chasing ranking AA. I love chasing TeamUSA. I never think about the insurance.

Just like at my HOA, I pretty much have given up the fights for issues when 99% of the folks do not care. I save my energy in fights for things that only directly impact me.

So do I like the stuff some board members, elites are doing? NOPE. But as you gave an example, the membership got rid of your 1 year term, which I am fully supportive of.
So, what did one of the obamacare folks say about how stupid the public is when it was passed. Well, seems this applies to USAT membership also, based on ballot
results over the years.

Thanks for making this stuff visible and pushing.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Shoemaker wants usat to comply with the law. Pretty simple.
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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When Slowtwitch used to run election coverage, I would read the info and try to make an informed decision.

I am suspicious of the various by law changes that have been the norm in recent years and as a result I vote No on everything. As I recall, on the last election I had to vote no twice because they mucked up the election process. I hate to be so cynical but that is the way I see it. (but I do vote)
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [p2k2001] [ In reply to ]
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"When Slowtwitch used to run election coverage, I would read the info and try to make an informed decision."

i'm not so sure very many readers gave a shit when we covered the elections. but i think i'm going to resume that coverage anyway.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:

one of the reasons USAT is as strong as it is is because of the legal monopoly granted it to it by federal statute. the olympic tie also grants USAT the ability to get involved in things like youth development, olympic development, coaching certification, etc., which it could do without the federation tie, but it would be an uphill slog. there's an imprimatur stamped on USAT's efforts when it's part of the federation system.

also, USAT makes a lot of money, and spends a lot of money, on its national championship weekend. it qualifies people for world championships. all that goes away when you don't have the right to qualify anybody for anything, and your'e not a national anything.

The obvious tie in here are USA Swimming and US Masters Swimming.

The way swimming is organized is that US Aquatic Sports is the actual IOC member federation. USA Swimming, US Masters Swimming, USA Diving, USA Water Polo and USA synchro are all independently managed sub entities. They all meet once per year or maybe even once per quad.

That organization type would keep everything you mention in terms of naming national champions, and naming the team to go to worlds the same as it is.

As for olympic and youth development, let that be the province of usa pro triathlon - or whatever name you want to give it. Coaching certification can be done by both the pro side and the age group side - just as it is done for usa swimming and us masters swimming.
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"When Slowtwitch used to run election coverage, I would read the info and try to make an informed decision."

i'm not so sure very many readers gave a shit when we covered the elections. but i think i'm going to resume that coverage anyway.

I always read the material!!

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [Kevin in MD] [ In reply to ]
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The one downside I could see with organizing the way swimming is done is that you're likely to turn one of the sub-federations into a red-headed stepchild. If you really want to go the aquatics route with several sub-federations, it's possible to see even more split and have a long distance fed, off road, duathlon, and so on. At that point, one or more would certainly become ignored.
Also, triathlon still has a lot of overlap between the "recreational" (USMS equivalent, so to include KQing, AG Nats, etc) and the "development" (USA Swimming equivalent-all ITU racing, maybe stuff for long course devo/elite racing) sides.
Swimming is just a lot more robust to allow this structure to survive, of splitting the federation. There's never a need to tell a kid or even a post-collegiate fast dude to go swim a USMS meet, but there's certainly plenty of times where you would tell a junior or an elite triathlete to go race a local sprint.

IG: idking90
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [iank] [ In reply to ]
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It wouldn't be completely analogous, no. It should be tailored to the sport's needs. But there's a clear division between the itu style side of the house and the rest of us. Right now we are setup in such a manner that that the 4 dozen? or so athletes who do itu style racing have 25% membership of a board that is supposed to represent more than 100,000 people. My own experiences with the folks at the home office has been that they care about itu style racing and gold medals, not much about the rest of us that aren't part of that 4 dozen.

I think it makes much more sense that they have their own entire federation purpose built for their needs.
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Re: USAT members, maybe you might want to pay attention to this [dogmile] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, you are spot on, lad. And that would be short-sighted, IMHO. We should keep doing whatever it takes to grow the sport. Olympic participation is a huge boost, and so is WTC, all the smaller race directors, and even ST.

This sort of internecine fighting is typical of democratic organizations. On the one hand it's a good sign of a vibrant board. On the other, is it too vibrant? ;)

I still don't understand what is in those emails that is so "smoking gun-ish". Who is the hammer, who is the nail?

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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