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Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon?
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We have thought of reasons not to have the run first; yet, there could be ways to lessen the swim risk and have a triathlon that isn't the same old same old. Perhaps we can flip them with one year being a swim first triathlon and the next year being a run first triathlon.

Imagine a run spreading out the field while the runners can show off their stuff. No more complaining about those massive swim starts that are a nightmare to patrol while looking for one swimmer in distress amongst a dense group of hundreds. By the time a marathon is done, there will be a nice long line heading into the bike transition and few groups. Maybe a 4 hour cutoff is reasonable. And in this way, maybe the runners can lead for over half the race rather than the swimmers and get more recognition.

The bike might not change that much. Runners might start spending even more money on the bike, given that they are now out ahead. Good for the industry. A longer field more spread out by a marathon, might also mean less drafting making that easier to enforce too.

The swim needs to be wetsuit legal. C'mon, the bike carried the swimmers' double digit body fat so why not have a wetsuit carry the runners' single digit body fat. That swim will be so spread out that the swim patrol will be able to watch a long line instead of a large group, making rescue easier if need be. The wetsuit, of course, lessens the risk too.

It will be a great finish! Will the runner get caught by the swimmer or will the runner prevail. Pass out numbered swim caps as they enter the water so the announcers will know who is who. Maybe even ten different swim cap colors with #1, 11, 21 etc being the same color so triathletes can get an idea of who they are passing in the water. Wow, this could make the swim a highly viewable and meaningful event.

Pretty pumped. How would this work for Mirinda, would they catch her with the swim last? How would this work for ITU, would the Brownlee Brothers still dominate (yeah, probably).

Yes, they will have to patrol the swim longer than we do now as we moved the patrol time from the run to the swim.

If we can't do this for IM due to nightfall, how about HIM? If they are Ironmen, doesn't that imply they could do it either way? Some what serious post here for fun too. Could this be an interesting change to the same old same old?

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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My first two races this year are reverse so the run is first. It's fun to do as a change of pace, but I honestly think I like saving the run for the final leg. Reverse races definitely favor "the runner" from what I've seen because the running/biking really trashes your swim stroke.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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I like mixing things up, but no way can you have a wetsuit swim. Ever tried to get a tri wetsuit on a sweaty body??
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Run first, swim last would favour swimmers. Unless you are draft legal, of course.

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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Probably doable for shorter races. My guess though is that it would never happen for a HIM or longer. There would be too much difference in the time from when the leader enters the water to when the last finisher is out of the water. For a HIM, that could be around 5 hours...and I don't think you want life guards patrolling the water for that long. For an IM...it's a no brainer...they aren't swimming after sunset.

Of course you probably could do it for races that only allow elites as that would solve some of the issues with time gaps in the water as well as fighting darkness in IM.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Of course you know that the swim course would be open for over 10 hours, as compared to doing the swim first where the course is open for about 3-4 hours.

Because an IM is 17 hours long, The last swimmers will probably enter the water in the dark and do the entire swim in the dark? Keep in mind, they probably will be the weakest swimmers/competitors and may have trouble finishing the swim and unlike the run, they will not be able to just collapse on the side of the road.

This might work for a shorter race, but an IM would be tough.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [PanamaRed] [ In reply to ]
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Midnight start time. The fastest guys will be in the water after dawn.

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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds good until the first fatigued athlete drowns. Instead of irresponsible idiots pushing themselves until they need an IV, we'll have irresponsible idiots pushing themselves until they sleep with the fishes.
Last edited by: Arch Stanton: Jan 27, 15 18:08
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Run first, swim last would favour swimmers. Unless you are draft legal, of course.

This^^
Whichever discipline is last is almost certainly the most important. The first discipline everyone has to save up for the last two, the next discipline you still have to leave enough in the tank for the last one, but on the last discipline everyone gets to push their personal limits and hammer to the line. The best in the sport really seperate themselves from everyone else when you are pushing at max effort. The difference is mental more than physical at that point, if you know that an NCAA All-American swimmer who is capable of swimming a 500 in 4:10 is barreling down on you, there is no chance you are going to go with him when he passes you. Conversely, when that same swimmer takes off at the beginning, you relax knowing that you will have your chance to catch him on the run. I can say with confidence that tri is already a runners sport as it is, no need for any changes.

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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [Tulkas] [ In reply to ]
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We put on a reverse sprint tri last April, when it was too cold for swimmers to jump out of the pool and get on the bike wet. The du-style start was more spectator friendly, and it was fun to watch the three local pros go at it head to head.

As an RD, I wouldn't want put exhausted athletes in the water.

Ex Race Director, put out of business by the Rona
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [Andy_M] [ In reply to ]
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how about eliminate the bike if you think you got a fix for drafting...

aquathlons! here in san diego is an underground one... run 3.4 miles (with optional beer stop to take 3 minutes off your time) and then 1k swim

sd tri club also puts on 5 a year of 1k swim then 5k beach run

i wish these races where more popular
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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The second oly, Saturday afternoon, at the Triple T is a bike, then swim, then run. It was very common for people to cramp up during the swim, I had a full lower body cramp as I lifted up to sight near the swim exit, it was all I could do to make it to the shore.

They do have a runners triathlon, it's called a duathlon.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Midnight start time. The fastest guys will be in the water after dawn.

^^This. Finally, I can sleep in on race day.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [Andy_M] [ In reply to ]
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Andy_M wrote:
We put on a reverse sprint tri last April, when it was too cold for swimmers to jump out of the pool and get on the bike wet. The du-style start was more spectator friendly, and it was fun to watch the three local pros go at it head to head.

As an RD, I wouldn't want put exhausted athletes in the water.

Yes but you got rid of it! :(

But I'll echo that it definitely plays more for swimmers. As less of a runner myself, not running off the bike is very beneficial.

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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [iank] [ In reply to ]
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For the swimmers complaining about the unfairness of the swim leg there is swim meets.

For the cyclists thinking they are actually a decent time trialist there is road racing.

And for the runners there is running races.

For the rest and of us who accept we all have weakness and will probably never be a decent enough single sport athlete to be legitimately competitive we can just shut up and wait for our finishers medals.

I learned a long time ago that the only pertinent information you offer is found within the last sentence.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [Andy_M] [ In reply to ]
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Andy and all,

Thank you for more information from your experience. A couple questions though.

1) Won't wearing a wetsuit, help make people "drown" proof? It could take a lot of lubricant to get in a wet suit though, admittedly. Good for the industry.

2) Would a swim platform every 400yds or 800yds help? Like aid stations on the run, it is swim legal to hold onto something during a triathlon that is not helping progress. Having a sag boat rather than a sag wagon would be in order to pull people from the swim platforms or water. There would be a swim cutoff - 2.5 hours?

3) Actually thinking there might be more attrition and more people not even making it to the water this way due to time cutoffs. True?

4) I would hope this would make the swim more viewable. It's hard to see what's happening with swim first. This would make the entire race more viewable. Triathlon's version of Jaws like drama. Will the fast swimmer catch the slow swimmer?

5) Actually more concerned about injury on the bike than the swim. People get tired and go down. How much more so after a marathon, I wonder?

6) How we would have to train our heads for these reverse triathlons. Is a 10-30 minute lead enough???

7) True, we probably could start the marathon earlier, at civil twilight ?, which gives us more light time to work with for the race.

8) Remember that RD who was promoting his race by knocking the others? This type of triathlon might be the unique one that they're looking for to differentiate themselves from others.

Thank you for having some fun with this along the terms of if we were crazy enough to do this, what would we have to cover.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Even a wetsuit swim could be treacherous for someone tired who has a panic attack. Floating face down is a bad thing and people have panicked in water they didn't realize was shallow enough to stand up in. Plus you'd need a lot of safety crew for what literally could be people scattered from the swim start to finish. But there is something appealing from a safety standpoint to sitting someone down before they get in the water and asking "you feel tired now, are you REALLY confident enough in your OWS ability to continue?". I'd be very intrigued to see how many people would correctly say "not today".

The run would be very interesting knowing the long bike follows. Go to hard and trash your quads and the bike becomes a verrrrry long day.

RBS might not be the best sequence for first timers but it would be fun to see how tactics change for a group of experienced racers.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [iswimslow] [ In reply to ]
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Good points. Maybe it's a requirement to do it the other way first.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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I've heard of these before. I believe they are called...a road race? Seriously though, too much of a logistical nightmare for a RD. As others have mentioned you now have to have control of a swim course for a much longer time, not to mention putting tired athletes into the water.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [apbadger] [ In reply to ]
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I tend to agree that it would favor swimmers... only because whatever your do last, your form will fall apart the most. So runner lose some of their advantage, and swimmers gain some. However, I've passed enough "fish" in sprint races on the bike and run to know that in many cases, it still won't matter. But it does balance out the event.

However, there would be real carnage for BOP athletes. I don't see if being safe unless it's a short sprint race... or a pool swim or a the swim has multiple laps.

It might be interesting for a small indoor/outdoor event, to put the swim 2nd. Do a 10s interval TT start on the bike.


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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Runners already get to show their stuff, the finish matters more than the race to T1.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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I've done reverse tris, and honestly, I think logistically it's a MUCH better format. The run allows good spacing so that once you hit the swim, people are well spaced more or less along the course. Rather than the huge muck of swimmers in the swim-first format. Alas, it's not going to be set up this way though.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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This thread made me think about this race, which includes only sprint distances, but My Way or the Tri Way in Aurora, Colorado lets you pick 2 OR 3 sports and do them in any order.
The year I did it, I picked swim-run-swim just for fun. It was a BLAST! I used a wetsuit for the first swim, but just went without for the 2nd - I wasn't interested in wrestling into it on race time.
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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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for a sprint to olympic distance, they're fine.

I've never done a reverse, but I did do a double sprint once. I think it was about a 500m swim, 10k bike, 3k run, twice through. The second swim was really ugly for the folks without a solid swim.

The smart ones ran with their cap and goggles and put them on before they got to T3

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Re: Triathletes and RDs, how about a runner's triathlon? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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imagine all the leg cramps on the swim...
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