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Tri training when A-race is a marathon
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I have a Sprint tri in May, Oly in June and HIM in July but my overarching goal this year is to run a sub 3 hr marathon in September. I just ran Napa Valley last weekend in 3:07 so I'm close. I need to bump my mileage up and average 65-70 mpw while still training to to "decent" in the tris that I have scheduled. Any thoughts on how many days/how much time/week to dedicate to biking/swimming when I'm running 6 days a week for about 8 hrs total. I can probably afford another 6 hours of training time in my week, but probably not much more than that.

My overall goal for the HIM (distance, not official IM) is 35 min swim, 2:45 Bike, 1:35 Run. I'm probably sitting at about 40/3:00 for the swim/bike right now since i was in the throws of marathon training all winter.

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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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I can tell you that this going to be hard. I am in the middle of the Hanson's marathon training program (week 10 of 18) trying to hit a goal similar to yours (about 5 mins slower). I run 6 days a week, and frankly can do an easy ride or 2 per week. No swimming at all. Anything more than just does not give me a chance to recover.

At this point I am just going to wait til I am done with the program and then I will give myself about 10 weeks to get ready for a HIM in July. But I can totally see myself not getting enough time to get in the gear given I will need at least a week to recover from the marathon.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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I had a similar race schedule the year that I ran my marathon PR. I didn't bike as much as I should have. I rarely rode more than 200 miles per week. But all through the summer I kept the running decent weekly mileage. No two-week breaks, no injury downtime
Just consistency. From mid-May to September, I only had one week less than 40 miles running. By late June, many were over 50 and 60. My half iron was Timberman in August and I got a PR. By then, my running mileage was pushing in into the 70s and 80s and my cycling was really tapering off. But I still had a personal best at the 70.3.

To my mind the marathon (September) was more vacation then PR attempt. But looking back now on my log I see so much consistency in my run training, it didnt matter that I wasnt knocking it out of the park every week. And I had done some decent marathon-pace running. So on marathon day, I was ready.

So keep the running mileage up. Keep it mostly easy but don't neglect the tempo/marathon pace.
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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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ronniewo wrote:
...
I need to bump my mileage up and average 65-70 mpw
...

I never understood those distances.
My last sub-3 marathon was:
20 week build.
Weekly distance: Average 37.5km , max 68km, min 7km (Last 10 weeks running distance: 44km, 42km, 52km, 37km, 44km, 68km, 64km, 60km, 44km, 19km, 42.195km)
Pace: Average 4:41, max, 3:54, min 5:24
HR: Average 147, min 134, max 175

Crossed the line in 2:59:46

I also tried an 8 week build two years ago, having averaged 23km/week for the year: 55km, 10km (sore knees), 65km, 53km, 54km, 52km, 42km, 20km, 42.195km
All easy distance. Virtually no
I missed the mark on this one though: 3:00:50 (Did a negative split though 1:31:10, 1:29:40 ).

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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [sub-3-dad] [ In reply to ]
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9/10 people couldn't run that fast off those k's. Imagine how fast you could go if you trained properly.
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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [blazeworth] [ In reply to ]
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blazeworth wrote:
9/10 people couldn't run that fast off those k's. Imagine how fast you could go if you trained properly.

You cant tell if that is proper training or not for him. Maybe he cant take more kilometers.

Of course, generally speaking, one would prefer higher volume for a mary build. But not necessarily. 50-60k is pretty decent and then doing some extra volume with the bike or on a crosstrainer is also fine. Sub3 is solid.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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I did the opposite last year and it worked well. Marathon late april, HIM mid June, Oly Aug.
I missed my marathon goal by 7 minutes due to an 80+F degree day. It was 72F at the half way point. Unusually warm.
I took half a week off after the marathon and then got in the pool... and eased into swimming and biking. For the next 2 weeks I only swam and biked. After that I ran 3x per week, swam and biked my brains out (An entire month of 10k yds per week in the pool), and hit a PR on the half - 35/2:45/1:50 - and that's my fastest run split in a HIM.

During marathon training I found I could only swim 1x per week, at around 2-3k yds. I can only seem to manage to get on the bike 1-2x per week, more to do with time and motivation than anything else.
This year I'm doing something similar. The main goal is the marathon.
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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [sub-3-dad] [ In reply to ]
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sub-3-dad [size 2 wrote:
...[/size]


My last sub-3 marathon was:
(Did a negative split though 1:31:10, 1:29:40 ).

I'm a big believer in doing what works for each individual, and you have results to prove lower mileage works so let the haters hate :).

I tend to fade in the last five miles and for me the solution is to run those last five miles a few more times in training. It went better this time on about 55 mpw so I'm experimenting.
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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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Joe - I'm with you on consistency. I just hope I don't over do it on the bike and end up having to either take time off or run less to get good bike workouts in. Swimming, while I'm not exactly a fish I tend to improve rapidly w/ a few weeks of training so I think I'll probably swim once a week and the up the swimming as I start to taper. That has worked OK in the past.
Last edited by: ronniewo: Mar 6, 15 10:57
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Re: Tri training when A-race is a marathon [mortysct] [ In reply to ]
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I've a mate who can run 33 min for 10k off 30k per week. I bet he could run sub 3 off 45-50k.

That does not change the fact that his full potential would be more like 2.25 for the full.

The top 10k runners train 160k per week. The top marathoners more.

Most people can't handle that. But the vast majority can take 80-100k.

There is many ways to train.... But there is little doubt that more is better (up to a point). That point is so far away from 45 k a week it's not funny.

Sub 3h is a great time for some people. Sub 4 is good for others. For people who can jog sub 3, maybe they need to target sub 2.40 and see what they can really do.
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