Well, let us take the Duke Lacrosse Case. What did the media, police officers, Dukes president, the black community, etc do? Without any real facts, they took one persons word and destroyed a few good young men. So many thought for so long any reasonable person could look at the entirety of the evidence and see they were guilty. Amazing what happened once the real evidence was asked to be seen from the defensive lawyers.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I am not sure what Landis was/is attempting to do here. He seems like a desperate man, driven to do desperate things. As Armstrong hinted at yesterday in his remarks, he had best seek some professional help.

I think he was trying to get his team into the Tour of California. Once the team was rejected, Floyd went ape-shit:



I heard floyd sent emails to Lance, Johan, the organizer of TOC, The IOC, UCI, CEO of Amgen, USOC, etc etc. Apparently, no-one was spared the Wrath of Floyd.

Now, Floyd is riding for Bahati, correct? Did he discuss his agenda with the Team Director?

The people Floyd just pissed off are serpents with very long memories. They will never forget this. Therefore, Floyd is a liability to any Pro-Continental team he is on = they'll never get invited to the Tour of California. And if any Pro-Tour team is stupid enough to sign him. that team will never get an invite to a Grand Tour.

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Um, as I recall the fable, in the end, there really WAS a wolf, right? So the boy lied about it before and nobody believed him and he paid for it... I understand is the point of the fable and the point I think you were attempting to make, but as it applies to Lance and the others Landis accuses of doping, according to the arc of the fable they really did dope after all. Is that really your point then?

Meow. now what about blood tests? why are they not involved? i hear a whole bunch of urine this and that when indeed it appears that it's all crap so why is urine the best test? or would you like for me to try and find out for myself, tough guy?

---

_________________
Anything is Possible.

I also have a huge problem with the credibility of the labs.

And I've peed in a cup, and read the rules, and follow this somewhat closely, in case anyone is worried about my bona fides on this. It seems there are many Johnny Come Latelies questioning the stands of Dan, Jordan, and others, to whom this is something they've been following for years.

The chain of custody, AND, record keeping is highly suspect.

Further, the leaks to the press are unbelievable. I am constantly shocked at how procedure is rarely followed.

I agree with Rappstar about the thresholds; WADA sets them crazy low, and then defends them to the hilt against highly reputable scientists and professors who have no skin in the game.

I'm not defending anyone, and I think far more people dope than many of you even conceive. Hell, I'm pushing for testing at the local level in cycling.

However, WADA and USADA, as well as various governing bodies, do not do themselves any favors.

A lot of things would never stand up in an American court that pass the CAS.

you are free to believe what you want. i'm marginally a public figure, but, i have shown no historic propensity to subordinate my views. there are some things we can't know. some people are uncomfortable not knowing. we don't know what happens when we die. we don't know the nature of god. we don't know whether there is intelligent life in the universe beyond earth. when i was younger, this lack of knowledge gave me a lot of discomfort. it no longer does.

i am comfortable not knowing who's doping in the peloton. that doesn't mean i don't care. it means i'm comfortable not knowing until those whose job it is to uncover these mysteries do their jobs.

leaps to conclusions based on scant evidence does impact me, however, and i am uncomfortable with that. people are wrongfully accused all the time because we just must know who committed a heinous murder, or who set off the bomb at the atlanta olympics.

if you feel you need to calculate the odds of lance's innocence, be my guest. but that sort of exercise usually ends up with such folks thinking we all likewise have a duty to calculate these odds, and, that we're blind or venal if we don't calculate them exactly as you do.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Urine is the easiest, least invasive, and safest method. That's why. They do test blood - but not nearly as often. But blood, needles, etc. are all biohazard risks. Urine is not. Plus, cyclists could legitimately object to having blood drawn every day since despite being a small amount, they are giving up something that is very necessary for performance.

There are also flaws in the blood tests. They are obviously different. But ultimately, none of these tests are "yes/no." They are all subjective tests that have a lot more margin of error than is made public. And - just as with urine tests - there are ways to "trick" the blood tests that are pretty easy to do.

Urine is definitely not the "best" test. It's just the easiest and most sanitary sample to collect, which is why it is the standard.

---

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I think everyone or the majority would be in agreement that performance enhancing drugs can be found in all sports, some more than others.

What is really unfortunate is that we (fans and spectators) have grown to accept their use and turn the other cheek. I think this especially holds true in the NFL (Brian Cushing is the latest example...look at him as a freshman vs. a junior/senior....I've been in that locker room in a different time), NBA and MLB which produce revenues in the billions.

Although I agree with the innocent until proven guilty philosophy, it is not that difficult to notice when an individual has utilized PED's. I'm not a doctor or an expert, but I think it is reasonable to argue that the human body can only achieve a certain level of performance with hard work on a natural level. When an individual gains 15-20lbs of muscle in 6-8 weeks, increases their recovery abilities or just goes from average to above average in an extremly short period of time days/weeks, those around and/or involved usually know what is going on although not discussed.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that it has become acceptable although still not morally accepted due to the amount of revenues, earnings, sales, etc. that athletes bring to the table for their sponsors, corporations, franchises, etc. It's just part of the business.

---

"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

"I think it is reasonable to argue that the human body can only achieve a certain level of performance with hard work on a natural level."

this is why i wholeheartedly support the idea of the biological passport. if it's physically impossible to make a physiological change within a certain time span, then, i don't think you need to pass a drug test, you just have to fail the test of reasonableness.

i think i'm probably more vehemently anti-doping than the average bear. i hate cheaters of every stripe. i love it when drug cheats get caught, and, i have absolutely no sympathy for them whatever. if a drug positive ruins their careers, so much the better. and, i'm sympathetic to the idea of one-and-done: if you're caught taking an antihistamine, that's one thing, but, a blood booster? you're done. you're gone. throw away the key.

that established, i don't think we should let our vehemence for catching cheaters cause us to tar the reputations of the maybe-cheaters.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The following blatantly stolen from Tilford's blog:
........................................
Dewey
May 19th, 2010 · 11 Comments

I received the email below from Dewey Dickey last week. I almost cried after reading it. Anyway, I asked Dewey if he wanted to write something. He is obviously a bit overwhelmed. Second guessing his decisions, as all of us would. You guys can judge if you want. I’m just sad. I am going to miss having him at the races.

May 12th, 2010

Steve,
Just wanted to let you know I’m suspended again for 2 years. USADA showed up at my house late last night and I refused the test. My TUE’s have not been approved yet this year so I refused. I would have been positive anyway. I had them in place from ‘06-’08. In ‘09 I reapplied with nothing being different but they kept asking for more info. I finally gave up. This winter I started the process again. They asked for more info and my doc faxed it in. Hadn’t heard anything as of yet, so figured it was still in the process of being either approved or denied.

I’m going to miss not being able to race with you and Brian anymore. I’ve always respected the hard ass way you race. Don’t be to hard on me on your blog.

Take care. Dew

May 18th, 2010

On the 11th on May at 9:30pm USADA showed up at my house and asked for a drug test. I refused to give a sample. I think they wanted blood too, but not sure. The reason I refused the test was because at that time I would have returned a positive test. After my health issues from ‘04-’05 I had to start taking 4 medications, 3 of which would be considered banned substances. When I returned to racing I applied for a TUE and was granted one straight away. The TUE’s were good for 3 years. They expired in May of ‘09 and I reapplied sometime that late winter/early spring. They now were asking for all sorts of additional documents and information from my doctor. I can’t quite remember, but I think they asked for a 3rd set of documents and at that time I said forget it. So this year I applied and once again they kept asking for more. I didn’t understand this as nothing has changed with my health and it never will change, at least not for the better. Anyway, I talked to my doc’s assistant and she got together the documents they were asking for and faxed them in. I received an email confirmation that they had received them and I would hear from them in about 3 weeks. I think that was around the 9th of April. I knew it was taking sometime, but just figured they were still in the process of getting them approved. So, when they showed, I knew I didn’t have them and was really dumbfounded that they would do something like that, knowing I didn’t have them and knowing it would be a problem for me. So, I had to make a quick decision, I thought it would be best to refuse the test knowing I wouldn’t pass anyway. Maybe that was a bad choice, but it’s to late now and I’m looking at a 2 year suspension.

Oh yeah, I just got an email confirming my TUE’s have been approved for another 3 years. GO figure. SO that’s what happened. I have some decisions to make on regards to my next step. I’ve tried calling the ombudsman and also USADA but haven’t been able to get through to anyone yet. That’s all for now.

The majority - if not the entirety - of WADA's tests, which they absolutely defend as 100% accurate and infallible are, according to many reports, flawed, immature, and/or much less reliable than stated.

You're absolutely right.

But I'm conflicted about what to do about it. One part of me wants the processes to become completely transparent and subject to rigorous clinical standards of the caliber the FDA requires to bring a drug to market.

The other part of me knows that would have some really bad effects. First, the window-of-opportunity for dopers to use a new drug would be lengthened dramatically because FDA-quality clinical research takes a lot of time. The EPO window was already more than decade or so, right? Want to add another decade where you don't know if your competition is using EPO? Second, a 100% transparent process is two-sided. Yes, it gives athletes and the public confidence in the accuracy of the test. But it's also a how-to manual on how to defeat the test. So, for EPO, you might be waiting two decades for a test that can be "innovated around" in a matter of weeks.

Also FDA-quality clinical research is wildly expensive. You need large samples sizes of trial participants to cover the wide variability in physiology. You're taking about millions upon millions of research to satisfy what is effectively a puny market size. Such a requirement by WADA could be damaging to the economic viability of affluent sports, and probably devastating if it was required by professional triathlon. It would probably only be viable if most pro sports signed on together and socialized the cost.

very good points, refreshing among all the chatter about the messenger's character (Floyd, of course) to ponder the greater issue at hand. the devil is in the details, as they say...

Sometimes we have to do things we dont really want to do.
Just ask Landis :)

---

__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ

great read.

Good point, but I wasn't recalling the fable to personify the wolf as Lance, just that no one would trust the boy after lying many times. Just remember the boy lies many times before he tells the truth. Is this another lie? or is it the truth? Point being, Landis has lost credibility. I don't trust anything he say, period. However, WADA and the UCI should still investigate these claims. But, unless Lance is found guilty, it is a convicted mans word against a non-convicted man. Floyd has implicated a lot of people, some of who throughout there career, the idea that they were doping (or influencing doping) never followed them. These include Michael Barry, George Hincapie, Allen Lim, David Z, and more people who were never implicated ever before. A lot of times (not all times) before someone has doped you get at least a little jist of it before it is caught. There is a chance Floyd could be 100% right, but being that Floyd has a history of lying, I am not going to believe that unless someone who has credit to his name proves Floyd right.

Chris

---

Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

I don't think the spectators turn a blind eye for not caring, I think rather many of us are weathered by the environment to not care. I mean if you want to continue being a baseball fan, you know your organization has money in their interest more than they do catching dopers. As a result we accept this, because that organization is making that choice and you can't do a bleeping thing about it. Why do they make the choice? Well initially they want to win games, and not lose fans if one is found to be on drugs. Hence, they probably cover it up. And, since the sh&* has been hitting the fan the last couple of years, many of us have accepted it. Otherwise, if we didn't we wouldn't watch sports for fear every other person is on drugs. But, I think a lot of spectators do care. Even a good deal of the ones who say "Let em dope, everyone needs an edge". These people say this because they don't want there sport, or their idols ruined and tarnished. However, I would have to agree with Slowman, if caught - no second chances. Hell Roger Clemens was making something like $8,000 a pitch. WTF. Now he is a drug cheat still living rich. Personally, F&^% Clemens. There are many "good guys" who scrap by and work hard and get paid garbage until they make it big. Ohh and some never make it big. Those who are caught cheating and stopping these guys from making it big should have no second chance.

---

Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

I agree with you, Jordan. And unfortunately right now the athletes are the only ones getting stuck with the fallout of a flawed system.

IF an accused athlete manages to successfully fight a flawed case, they still fight an uphill battle to recover their dignity. Meanwhile, the entity responsible for whatever error occurred moves right on with little more than a blip of negative consequence.

AYLFBSMB!

I know I want a time machine.

---

_________________
Anything is Possible.

Dan I respect your opinion... or lack of opinion but if you truly live your life reserving all judgement it must take you a really long time to process the world around you.

We as humans generalize, we take past experiences and group current circumstances into our old schemas.

Are you trying to play the journalist card of "I just report the facts" if so I understand that line of reasoning but dont tell us you dont have your own opinions on the matter one way or the other...

I think that Dan is playing the 'class' card and not taking a route that might, if he were to take a stand on either side, demean people that in which he or anyone for that matter can't honestly say for sure one way or the other about and realizes it would be futile and demeaning to do so if he did and not only to himself but to the rest of us.

He's setting an example.

---

_________________
Anything is Possible.

"maybe-cheaters"...I respect the thought of passing judgement, however through experience of competition, team sports and locker rooms; there are times when it is obvious or blatant when guys are using PED's, even if not discussed or witnessed first hand. I've seen and witnessed many times the guy about to lose his starting job as well as throughout high school and college the reinforcement of bigger, stronger faster. Look at the evolution of the modern athlete from the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's through to today. Sure training and coaching has improved, but so has science.

I would love to see a zero tolerance enforcement and a level playing field, but it's just not going to happen. Especially in today's day and age of me, myself and I where everyone is trying to create and market themselves through Twitter, Facebook, MySpace et al, with the mighty dollar trumping everything. Do you think any of the owners or corporations are going to turn on their own?

So, we know or at least I know at times when an individual has been "supplementing" with PED's, or have more than enough suspicion and red flags. What's the point, if any? Denial, because it is not morally accepted and/or allowed by the rules? Forgiveness, because people want to hear an apology or I got caught?

---

"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

"this is why i wholeheartedly support the idea of the biological passport. if it's physically impossible to make a physiological change within a certain time span, then, i don't think you need to pass a drug test, you just have to fail the test of reasonableness."


So winning the Tour 7 times beating all kinds of doped athletes and conveniently ending your career the following year when major drug busts take place is...

I think it's very reasonable that you don't have a public opinion on this. Lance has a history of using lawyer force against those that stand in his way.


To this date I have yet to hear Lance answer the question whether he ever took EPO. So far I always hear him answering that he does not take PED and that he never tested positive. Why not provide Lance with the opportunity to answer questions to your readers. We could start a separate thread in which we could submit SPECIFIC questions ;) I'm sure he wouldn't go for it though.

---

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

I fully agree with you Dan.

In some parts of my country it is not unusual for a linch mob to kill and even burn alive presumed criminals at the town square. I think that it is a fair punishment for a rapist or a kidnapper that killed their victim, the problem is that sometimes they find out too late that they got the wrong person.

Sergio

---

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

or lack of opinion but if you truly live your life reserving all judgement it must take you a really long time to process the world around you.

One can have strong opinions about stuff and still stradle the middle in public. I know that I have many strong opinions on things including whether many of the pros have/are taking PEDS. But unless I have some information that is legit and points to a persons guilt without much doubt(like what a court of law might need), then I will keep those opinions to myself or my circle of friends that I confide in. I think a lot of us do that, perhaps more should...