Is this related to that feeling you get in an Ironman, where you are not breathing hard, your heart rate is low, you feel like you have piles of energy, yet you can't apply any force to the pedals or to the road because your legs just feel heavy and have no bounce...in which case, it is just all about endurance in "low zone 1". RAAM riders feel this all the time. They are going at 12 mph yet their legs burn. It is just endurance, if you go long enough the legs will burn at really really slow speeds :-)

OK since nobody is biting I'll take a stab.

It's the ability to hold a given force for an extended duration.

Example: stand up and raise your arms perpendicular to your body, parallel to the ground. You are doing no work at this point, yet your muscles will fatigue eventually. Someone will have to chime in on what physiologically is happening at this point to create fatigue.

So muscular endurance is enhanced working at high forces for extended periods. Since tempo and threshold efforts are high intensities (and thus, higher forces relative to lower intensity workouts) and can be maintained for relatively long periods of time, they are a good method for improving sport-specific muscular endurance.

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Note to self: increase training load.

I believe this is a BIG TIME limiter for me, especially as it relates to cycling. I have very poor muscular endurance. Explosive power is there, but my muscles fatigue very quickly. Long rides typically result in dramatic losses of power despite adequate hydration and nutrition. Long runs = same story. Long swims however do not result in power loss as I have adequately developed the muscles critical to maintaining my stroke for long periods of time. Part of this probably relates to my athletic backround. Repetitive motion in the upper body is not foreign to my sytem from years of golf, baseball and tennis. Unfortunately those sports did very little to help my legs.

It's my totally unfounded entirely speculative belief that variances in muscular endurance is what allows some people to work at lactate threshold for long periods of time while others (read: me) can only stay there for short periods while maintaining pace (or power).

[reply]
Example: stand up and raise your arms perpendicular to your body, parallel to the ground. You are doing no work at this point, yet your muscles will fatigue eventually. Someone will have to chime in on what physiologically is happening at this point to create fatigue. [/reply]

I won't try to speak to the physiology of this, but I would say you are definitely doing work in this example. You're fighting gravity to hold your arm out, so work is definitely being done.

Saltman, what if you swam for 5-6 hours...do you think you'd lose arm strength like leg strength while biking for the same duration. I bet you do...its just that your long swim equates to your short bike ride...your legs can likely still last longer :-)

"Saltman, what if you swam for 5-6 hours...do you think you'd lose arm strength like leg strength while biking for the same duration. I bet you do..."

Arms and shoulders start to feel weak after a couple hours. It feels like your pull has no force to it, and your hands 'slip.'

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

It is tempting to say that the concept of "muscular endurance" exists among triathletes because, as a group, we need something MUCH more polysyllabic than "tempo". But the term "muscular endurance" is much more descriptive of the training load you perceive while doing it, and of the specific fitness gains that you notice from doing it.
I doubt you runners have been neglecting it per se, but you are welcome to borrow our $10 word whenever you need it. As it refers to a type of workout, it means "hard runs in the hills". As it refers to fitness, it means "endurance".

"I believe this is a BIG TIME limiter for me"

How long have you been training? How long have you been training long?

I say this with respect, but perhaps you just have not put in enough time yet. People respond to training stimuli differently. However, the bottom line is that many of the real, substantial and sustainable gains in endurance fitness come over much longer periods of time( read: years) than people imagine. The good news is, that once you have put in the time, say 5 - 6 years and established adeep base of fitness and endurance, it will stay with you for a long time, even with just a maitneance training schedule.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Endurance - The act, quality, or power of withstanding hardship or stress.


From a physiological point of view there isn't such a thing as "muscular endurance", simply because all endurance is muscular. Using terms like "muscular endurance" makes you believe there are other kinds of endurance, which there aren't. Except the mental endurance you need to see people invent physiological concepts, that is...

The good news is, that once you have put in the time, say 5 - 6 years and established adeep base of fitness and endurance, it will stay with you for a long time, even with just a maitneance training schedule.

I can personally attest to that statement, currently being at the bare minimum of a maintenance training schedule, yet was able to slog it out for 5 1/2 hours plus on an indoor bike last Saturday...granted, for the most part I wasn't riding all that hard but as an anecdotal data point with more than 20 years of "endurance sports" floating around my past---I got through it and am not completely trashed.

(Hee hee hee)

I looked up "muscular endurance" in my Exercise Phys text. It's not in the index or the glossary.

so it does not exist ?

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

It does. It's called endurance.

Not to be a smart@$$, but isn't that just getting tired?

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Mike,

I have had similar experiences recently. I don't "train" that mch anymore. Just fit in what I can when I can, but I have 25+ years worth of non-stop fitness to tap into. It does not seem to take me that long to ramp it back up and be competitive.

I have jumped into sprint triathlons here and there on a whim the last few years and despite limited, to no swimming and running and a modest amount of cycling, I have not embarassed myself, and in a couple of instances surprised myself and placed well in my AG. I am not sure how else to explain this other than the huge base a resivoir of fitness and muscle memory that has built up over time.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I ass-u-me that most people know this, Friel defines it as:

Muscular Endurance (ME) - The ability of a muscle of muscle group to perform repeated contractions for a long period of time while while bearing a load. The combination of force and endurance abilities.

Endurance - The ability to persist despite the onset of fatique.

THANK YOU PAULO!! but dont tell Mr Friel!

Kurt

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http://www.pbmcoaching.com
USA Triathlon Level 3 Elite Coach
USA Cycling Level 1 Elite Coach

And he is wrong. Force is a component of endurance, not a separate ability.

Do you agree with his ability regions? If not, then how do define strengths and weaknesses?

Can I buy your book on Amazon.com?

No.

Strenghts and weaknesses can only be related to the three energy systems.

What I am saying is not exatly new. I'm sure that you can find plenty of books on Amazon.com with what I am saying.

Any comments effects of sport-specific weight training on muscular endurance?

For example leg press for cycling. What would be the optimal number of reps to perform? 6, 10, 20, 50? Even doing 100 reps is much less than the number of contractions when doing a long bike ride. Should the sets be done to complete failure, as recommended by strength trainers?

Only on race week...

LOL... fucking classic :-D

Seriously!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Strenghts and weaknesses can only be related to the three energy systems.

You might be coach, but I (used to be) the biochemist, and I'll call you on this and say that its absurdly reductionist. Our current understanding of cellular and metabolic respiration might not provide a particularly good way to understand how someone can ride a 40km TT in 52 minutes but cannot ride 100 miles in less than 6 hours; that doesn't mean that such people cannot exist. We have clues about the reasons why someone can put out that kind of effort over an hour but cannot sustain lower workloads for 6 hours. We know that with enough training, they can probably bridge the gap. But to say that all that is happening is some kind of shift within 3 specific biochemical pathways in the body is just way too simplistic. Pain tolerance, body and joint mechanics, motivational issues - these all play significant roles in the "appearance" of muscular endurance but have nothing to do with biochemical energy systems.

What if I wrote this:

"Strenghts and weaknesses can only be related to the three energy systems and how they are called into play in a performance situation"

Does that make you happier?

And you're the one that is saying that a 40km and a 100mi maximal efforts are different. In fact, they are much the same and the limiter for both is the same too. We've been over this many times, there isn't such a thing as an athlete that is "very efficient" at lower speeds than higher speeds.

And muscular endurance now comprises motivational issues too? I didn't know that, better ask Friel that...