8-10 miles??

A bike fit critique question would have gotten more responses. :-)


I'll put my $0.02 in. The "run" coaches can critique my response. :-)

Here it goes... depends on your ability and the phase of your training program..... 20 to 60 minutes of steady running. I like to use Daniels so 20 minutes at threshold pace or longer runs at the threshold adjusted pace based on duration of the run. I like to do my tempo runs on a track that way I can better hold my correct T pace (which is important).

In the pre-comp phase I like to do a long bike (3 - 4 hr) / cruise interval (on track) brick. Where I adjust my interval pace based on my predicted HIM run time. YMMV on this workout. :-)

how long should the tempo runs be if one`s preping for a HIM?
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Assuming that you are in reasonable shape:


"Tempo runs" should begin at ~20 minutes at 1 hr race pace and, over the course of several months, build to 30 to 40 minutes. As your race gets closer, I'd add in some more event specifc tempo training which would include tempo runs up to an hour long at ~1hr race pace +15 sec/mile. I would recommend these longer efforts until you've mastered the shorter, faster ones. Keep in mind that the longer your tempo run is, the more risk of overtraining or injury there is.

None of this amounts to a hill of beans if you don't have your consistent slow mileage up.

Good luck.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

thanks Trevor,Barry,

have been training consistently since oct of last yr, peaked for my type-a(olympic distance) race last may 6. having some downtime but still running 3x at 30mins since that race. my half wil be in oct and been doing tempo runs only for my olympic prep which maxed at 30mins - for now will add frequency and hopefully build to 4-5 runs a wk from 3-4 months back.

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"Pain is NOT temporary,you remember every bit of it"

"A bike fit critique question would have gotten more responses. :-) "

Indeed, there little love for running or swimming related posts here on ST. I say this in jest, but the denizens of ST Land are triathletes, with an obsession for all/only bike related subject matter. Ever notice how quickly a thread on wetsuits drops off the front page - believe me I notice - and even with Emilio and me propping them up those threads still get relegated to the 3rd or 4th page quickly due to all the bike related threads.

To ensure thread stickiness use words lile, Power, Fit, Aerodynamics, Bjorn, Cervelo etc . . in the subject line even if you are talking about running :)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Quick edit to my post. I would NOT recommend the longer tempo runs until the shorter ones are mastered.


Keep in mind, the #1 factor that will effect your race performance in the half is total # of miles/wk. The easiest way to do that is to run easy (65-80% maxHR) and run often (up to 6 times a week, even if some are for only 15 minutes).

#2 will be getting in a consistent long run.

#3 is your tempo running. Don't sacrifice 1 & 2 to do #3.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Barry, what does "1 hour race pace" mean? and should on continue to do lon runs-more than 1.5 hours?

Barry, forgot to thank you for all the great advice. I now run 7 days/week, tempo runs are up to 40 minutes, recovery runs are minimum 30 minutes. I've run daily for 5.5 months. Never thought this would be possible. I don't think I have the high-end that I used to put I keep telling myself that this is not what I need for a solid HIM. thanks again for the incentives.

Sometimes, Let's Run can be interesting and accordingly one of the posts listed this protocol for R Hall, D Kastor and other Big Bear runners:

20 - 30 minute tempo: .93 * 5K pace
40 - 60 minute tempo: .9 * 5K pace (projected 1/2 marathon pace)
70 - 80 minute tempo: .87 * 5K pace (projected marathon pace)

That's 5K date pace.

You can work backwards from a projected 1/2 or marathon pace if you don't have a recent 5K to work with.

I don't think these paces should elicit an absolute suffer fest, they should be challenging for the first 75% and uncomfortable for the last 25%.

Would you mind if I PM'ed you for some running advice?

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Portside Athletics Blog

Is this for a runner or for a triathlete? As I put more miles on the bike I just don't think I will be able to do a 1:35 half-I'm thinking a 2 hours after a hilly course. So which pace does on choose? Right now I have been doing all tempo work with heart rate -about 85% for up to 40 minutes. Feels great!

But if you do a tempo run at a 2 hour 1/2 marathon pace when you can really run a 1:35 stand-alone 1/2, then you're not really training your body to process lactate the way a tempo run is intended.

This is all assuming that you do your tempo run as a stand-alone workout, not a bike/run.

thanks Barry,

i have been doing # 2 consistently but maxed out at 1:40 which prep me for my olympic distance race last,last weekend. # 1 i`ll try to add some more runs but working nights makes me feel crappy after work -must be the sunlight. my runs are basically t-th-sat-sun*T-run. will add 1 more run and see what happens. #3 has been the staple workout also and it seemed i was overdoing the effort, it was more race face already not phase! instead of comfortably hard it was hard outright - like open 10k pace effort but luckily didnt injure myself.

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"Pain is NOT temporary,you remember every bit of it"

Perfect! makes sense to me. and the work is so much harder at the higher pace. Thanks for the advice. and how long do you suggest for the long run?

Do your tempo runs at your correct fresh tempo pace. This is really a key workout and should be done on relatively fresh legs. If run on the same course and conditions with proper pacing I wouldn't expect more than approx 5 minute difference between your fresh and HIM run time.


Tempo runs are all about running at the correct pace (not HR). You will not fully benefit from tempo runs if you are running faster or slower than you proper tempo pace.

20 - 30 minute tempo: .93 * 5K pace
40 - 60 minute tempo: .9 * 5K pace (projected 1/2 marathon pace)
70 - 80 minute tempo: .87 * 5K pace (projected marathon pace)
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Ha! Those look like Tinman formulas.

Be sure to actually DIVIDE by the number. ie, if 5K pace is 5:00/ mile, 20 minute tempo is 5/.93 = 5.37...or 5:22 per mile.


ONE IMPORTANT WARNING, this advice assumes you are an avid runner. Someone whe runs a 5K in 28 minutes will likely need to do their tempo runs faster than the formula prescribes.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

One hour race pace means the pace you can run for a race that would take you 1 hr to complete.

I used to say "10 mile race pace" but then noticed a lot of triathlon books saying "10K race pace" which is way too fast, IMO, for someone who is a good runner.

Why?

Because a good runner can run a 10K in 35 minutes and 10 miles in about an hour. However, *most* triathletes run much slower. Their 10ks tend to be closer to an hour than their 10 milers are.

So I say "1 hr race pace" because I don't know how fast you are. Use 10K race pace if you are slower, 10 mile race pace if you are faster.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Is this for a runner or for a triathlete? As I put more miles on the bike I just don't think I will be able to do a 1:35 half-I'm thinking a 2 hours after a hilly course. So which pace does on choose? Right now I have been doing all tempo work with heart rate -about 85% for up to 40 minutes. Feels great!
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85% is probably on the slow side, though it's hard to tell when just using your HM.

As I said before, take a guess at what your "1 hr race pace" is. Slightly slower than standalone 10K pace? Just faster than standalone 10 mile pace?

Or just go to this site:

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/...unningcalculator.htm


Tempo run pace is for 20-40 minute runs.
Steady State pace is for 40-60 minute runs.

Make sure you use *current fitness* and stand alone times. This will put you in the right training zone.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Would you mind if I PM'ed you for some running advice?
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Bring it on.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Sounds good. Don't neglect your swim and Bike, however. You probably only need to back off of your tempo runs a tad. They really do feel hard, .....but comfortable.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

thanks. as much as i would want to add more bikes and swim, can only manage 3 workouts for each sport during the week. so really need to work on scheduling my runs now. re: tempo pace, still working on that comfortably hard feeling and not that gasping feeling in the last 5-10mins of the workout. didnt bother using the monitor then because was hitting the 165-175 range for the workout

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"Pain is NOT temporary,you remember every bit of it"

Long Runs:

Many months from race - 50-100% longer than any other run that week. As long as you can go without riskining injury or compromising the rest of your week's training.

Within 3 months of race - same as before unless it is less than 15 miles. If so, then once every 10 to 14 days make a focused effort to really extend the limits of your long run....up to 15 miles (for a half). Run a second long run in between, but vary the distance depending on how you feel. ie you may run 15 miles every 10 days and then 9 miles inbetween, or you may run 15 every 14 days and 12 in between.

This is in no way a *rule* but it should work for you. Some more avid runner may push well beyond 15 miles, even if training for an OLY. However, they only do so if they can recover quickly from it.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

One thing which I haven't seen mentioned is, especially when you are starting to work the tempo runs in, rather than doing 1x30' do 2x15' (2' easy jog between) @ hour pace.

I've only done one HIM, but will add my 2c anyway:

How important is the tempo run *compared to your highest priority workouts of the week*?

For me, the long bike, medium bike, long run, and one long swim, were all more important than the tempo run.

I scheduled a weekly "medium distance" run to occur on the day before my long bike ride. If I felt really good and was not too worried about tiring myself out for the next day's ride, I would turn it into a tempo run. If I was tired or had an especially ambitious long ride the next day, I would skip the tempo and run at a steady pace.

Just another thing to consider. I found that once I was training for HIM distance, I could not make *everything* a priority, I had to structure my week around being prepared for the most important workouts. The tempo run was not.