Do more descending sets, where you get 1 or 2 seconds per 100 quicker on each repeat throughout the set. as an example...

4 x (4x100) desc 1-4 on 2:00

repeat 1 you should touch at 1:40
repeat 2 - 1:38
repeat 3 1:36
repeat 4 - 1:34

then repeat that whole thing 4 times (or however many times you design into the set.

try not to cheat it, which you can do if you swim them as 4 lengths easy, then on #2 3 lengths easy 1 fast, then 2 lengths easy 2 fast, etc....

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This made me laugh. Not because it's not effective though. While it would be simple for you, me or anyone else that's been swimming all their life's the do it, the idea of an adult onset swimming triathlete being able to do this is comical. It's one of those things that is so ingrained in us that it's instinctual. On the flip side it's nearly impossible for me to hit exact times with any consistency while doing track sets.

It's difficult for a lot of AOS, no question, but its a very valuable skill. For the OP, start out at the high end of the range, or even something like 4 x (3x100) descend 1-3 and get 5 secs faster on each repeat. then start working on more precise descend intervals.

you really need to be able to swim something in-between "all out" and "easy"

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I'm an AOS and recently started doing 5x100 descend before my main sets with the first being steady and the last being pretty hard. It has really helped me get an idea about pacing when I'm blind in the water.

Jason, good point about not cheating. I think I have been doing what you explain on some of my 100s to my detriment, will work on that.

Thank you. Someone understands!

I have a similar problem except my speeds are slow and slower. At 2:15/100, 1-2 seconds/100 is noise in the measurement.

I find it interesting that it's Delts and Core that fatigue and get sore... not really sure why that info stands out, just seems odd to me.

Can you swim the easy, easier and slower?

Also, swimming harder does not = swimming faster. Swimming faster is absolutely hard, but unlike bike and run, the effort itself doesn't translate naturally to speed of movement. It's a much more subtle change in pressure on the water and counter force stabilization, and change of stroke rate that = faster swimming.

I find a lot of AOS also have a really hard time making subtle changes, and go way too hard way to early on 'fast' reps, missing out on an opportunity to set up their stroke well.

I like the suggestion to practice descending sets, and would also encourage some building sets:
4x50 build, where first 6-8 strokes of each is a moderate pace to set up the stroke and good form, then make slight increases to pressure on the water each 6-8 strokes.

LOL. no problem, the point is to get progressively faster. be it 1 or 5 or 8 seconds quicker per repeat, and try to hit your goal +/- 2 seconds. Then gradually bring that down as you improve.

Be warned that trying to descend by 8 seconds per 100 is tough though, you run out of seconds pretty quick.

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I guess the only thing about build sets (which I really like, by the way) is that the OP feels like he's working harder, but isn't actually swimming faster. build sets remove some of that feedback from the clock. Using a tempo trainer could work though, e.g. if the target is 46 secs for the 50, then set the tempo at 23 seconds. You'll want to hit the 25 mark slower than 23, and finish the 50 at 46.

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That's very helpful advice, thanks. And yeah, I can totally see myself cheating (not on purspose) by just going hard the last 25 on the second, the last 50 on the third, etc.

Here's a follow up question.. how do you regulate your speed.. faster cadence or harder pull? Or both probably?

I've tried and it doesn't go well. I find my form is really impacted and I have to drop my cadence way down. Doesn't feel right.

thanks for the suggestion on the sets.

generally, a slightly "faster" pull which leads to a slightly higher cadence (typically the same # of strokes per length though)

It's useful (for me anyway) to think of it as pulling faster, rather than "harder". pulling harder can subconsciously cause you to tense up, which is probably one of the things that is going on for you.

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Spot on, pull faster to go faster.
Don't try and work harder, just pull faster, the speed will come and it will get harder.

You may find that you switch techniques when going faster and that your slow technique is not conducive to going faster and your fast technique is not conducive to going slower.
You have now reached the point where you need to mess around with your technique and let your body find how to optimise it at every speed.

Funnily enough, it is at this stage that many swimmers discover that when they try and swim easier that they actually go faster.
Just as mentioned above, just feeling like you are working harder is not swimming faster, swimming faster is.
Pull faster to go faster but don't TRY and increase anything else, everything else will follow of it's own accord.

Happy playing.....

I agree with you, build sets would definitely take the feedback and focus off the clock, that's the point of it IMO, shift focus back to internal feedback. ("Feel") :)

I may disagree with one of your premises. If you're finding it's harder to hold 1:30 on say a 200 or 300, that's absolutely natural. The reason is that your first 50 or even 100 is more "rested" than getting deep into a longer interval. For example, I can swim a lot of 1:04s, but a 2:08 is a very, very good effort at the end of a set. I haven't yet been a 3:12 in practice. That's pretty normal, I think.

A couple more thoughts:
if 100s are hard to descend, nothing wrong with descending 25s, 50s or 75s. I think say five rounds of 25s, des 1-4 is really useful. Also, I'll often do a set of 12-20x75, descend 1-4. You can take an easy 100 between rounds, which helps you recover and go really fast on the last 75.
In general, triathletes probably don't swim fast enough. You need faster efforts to learn about technique. Try doing say 8-12 25s, one easy one fast. Look at the clock! Try to find ways to be both faster and at an easier effort.

This is exactly the type of workout my coach had me doing this morning to try and get the speed back up after a little bit of a winter break. And it's amazing how I was able to push myself and go faster during the descending sets.

I haven't read through the responses, but one suggestion I would make is to try to engage your lats more. You can do this pretty easily by rotating slightly more (and extending your arm) on your pull. I've had several notable breakthroughs in swimming, and this was one of them. I don't have video confirmation of it, but I have a feeling that this has an added benefit (for me anyway) of optimizing my hand and forearm angle during the catch.

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When you first did that, did you go slower initially? I’ve tried this but I end up slower so I give up.

I know this question wasn't directed to me (and it's a bit of a hijack), but this is a huge problem I have with swimming. If I slow down below ~1:32 per hundred yards, I literally sink. I can maintain this pace for 500y or so, but it definitely doesn't feel "easy", such that my HR pushes up in to the low 90% of my HRR. If I kick more, I won't last as long. I know I'm really dense (particularly my legs), which implicitly compromises my buoyancy, but does anyone have any suggestions about how to specifically swim slower without sinking?

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No, just the opposite actually. While it inherently decreased my turnover, my speed per hundred (and per effort) was increased. Some of that had to do with not burning out my delts, but I think some of it also was a matter of improved catch efficiency.

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Make your own thread. I’m kidding.

One thing I’ve found helps with that is ensuring you have really good core engagement and body posture (tautness as Gerry Rodrigues refers to it). But you’re faster than me so you will likely get more useful advice from others on this thread.

Thanks, I'll look him up. It's frustrating because, somewhat like you, I'm speed restricted; I have multiple speeds, but none of them are sustainable.

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I can add a little to this discussion. My reference point is as an AOS who was once a BOP swimmer – I’ve stopped doing tri, and for the last few years I’ve mostly just been a masters swimmer. I’ve started doing swim meets and I’m becoming a respectable masters swimmer.

I agree with others – that starting with descending 50’s is a better way to learn before taking on 100’s. I also will restate what my coach tells me – that you need a plan for how you’re going descend before you start the set.

What specifically are you going to do better/different? Just thinking to myself “ok – I’m going to drop 2s / 50” does not do much for me. Rather each 50 has a specific focus. For example – this works for me (what works for you might be different):

1st 50: think about the catch
2nd 50: think about finish and how body rotation is coupled to the pull
3rd 50: kick is slightly harder, think about the wall and breakout
4th 50: hard kick, mindful of kick during breath

When I do this, I can drop 2s per 50 very consistently. It took a bit of work for me to learn to do this, but I think it is one of most useful sets I’ve done for developing speed. The only other thing I can say is that figuring out ‘easy’ to go on the first 50 is big part of doing this well. You can set yourself up for failure if you go too fast too early.

Do 500s where you go very easy the first 100. Then slightly faster the next one. Then slightly faster each one after so that your last one is a full sprint. Don't stop between 100s, just put it in the next harder gear after each 100, nonstop. Do this frequently and you'll develop at least 5 gears.

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The point of this for anyone not skilled in speedplay would be to attempt it and closely monitor the results via the pace clock. There is really no failure or success in descending sets, only feedback. Experience suggests that a concerted effort will yield improved results. The best thing about speedplay is it teaches you things about swimming beyond simply changing effort.