I think you mean the Obree superman position, and given that it was banned, no I have not tried it.

Easiest way to do it is to buy a frame about 6cm bigger than you require. Puts the bars further forward and up at the same time.
Banned for UCI competition. maximum allowed distance 75cm from aerobar end to bottom bracket.

The Superman position is not good for comfort as your back and arms are very stretched, also handles interestingly, and perhaps not good from a safety point of view regarding being able to reach the brakes etc with ease.

Save it from the track.

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"Here's how you run a marathon. Step 1: You start running. Step 2: There is no step 2." - Barney (How I Met Your Mother)

I would guess that the "egg" position is both easier to obtain and easier to hold while riding. The superman position looks like it would be very strenuous to hold for any length of time.

David K

It'd be a lot easier for you to adopt the "Praying Landis" and take your extensions and loft them up at about 45 deg. Then when riding, start the praying: ....please don't test me today please don't test me today please don't test me today.....

Except that the rules state you're not allowed your bars higher than your saddle. Means you can't really rest your body on your arms when in the tuck, and so it hurts. A lot.
I tried it in training the other day for the pursuit. I'm having a real issue with the UCI rules at the moment.

I wouldn't like to try it on the road, braking, cornering, climbing etc.

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"Here's how you run a marathon. Step 1: You start running. Step 2: There is no step 2." - Barney (How I Met Your Mother)

Found an old thread where John Cobb thought it was a good idea for certain flatter triathlon bike courses. Some people were even saying with high enough bars it seemed more comfortable than a standard TT position. Also, I read that one can run their saddle further back in a more traditional road position, improving ergonomics and power. Any thoughts on this?

If I remember correctly, the first time I ever used aerobars the bike seemed a little hard to handle and the idea of racing like this seemed pretty crazy, except that Lemond just won the '89 TDF doing it... I have a feeling a road-modified-superman position may be something similar. As far as the Obree "egg" position, I can't hold that sitting on the couch so it's hard to believe I could do that on the road. Although I remember Moser rode 100's of miles in the mountains in this egg position in preparation for his out of retirement hour record attempt in the early 90's. He was in his 40's, almost broke it too...

I think the egg position would be extremely difficult to ride, as the steering radius is soooo small. It would be extremely twitchy compared to any sane setup. The superman makes use of a really long extension, so the only real difficulty would be in courses where you have a sharp u-turn (two at the Gulf Coast Tri, one at the half IMFL this year, etc.). I use a frame that is a little bit too long for me, and use a ~120mm stem, but I sit forward and have a reasonable drop. In field testing I know that I saved about 10W at 20mph by simply sliding all the way back on the seat and pushing my hands all the way forward on the aerobars until I was just holding onto the DA shifters. That's a huge amount of savings, unfortunately it was also squashing my stomach and I'd probably end up with digestion problems...so I haven't pursued the superman position.

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This is Obree ... sometime last year, I think. Gorgeous fixie. No basebar. Freaking amazing-looking position. Wish I knew how fast he was in this configuration. Look how far back he is on the saddle! Usually you see folks riding on the tip. But this may be how he's still racing "superman" ... within the 75cm by moving his ass way back on the saddle? Hmmmm.

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Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

54cm top tube, 13cm stem, old school profile bars extended to the max, fixed gear w/front brake, ridden exclusively on the road up to 100km. felt like a very fast position, even if it was not as extreme as obree's, and more comfortable than you may think.

Looks like a bad fit to me

that isn't the superman positon...more the "down-diver" position or an inbetween that Jens, Tom, myself and others have found to be about as fast as you can get...

interestingly, that is essentially (regardless of the saddle position) a good follow of the good Dr. Coggan's "neanderthal" positioning guide (shoulders as low or inline with the hips as possible etc. etc.)

it is also about exactly where I ended up as well (from a video clip):



It's pretty darn fast position...but not superman:


(from: http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/superpos.htm)

If memory serves though, Coggan also said that superman doesn't work very well outside low (<5d) yaw...

g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

If I remember correctly, that was the British 10-mile championship TT from last year and he won with a high 18. I could be wrong though.

Greg,

Are you UCI legal in that position?

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Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

Glad to see Obree racing again. So what's the estimated CDA improvement running superman over a standard position? If I can ride 26 mph with a normal tt setup could I go 27 mph in the superman position? Based on Boardman riding 56+ k's an hour in superman and his 4:12 4k this doesn't seem unreasonable...

For me at least, it varied from -7% at 0 deg of yaw to +8% at 10 deg of yaw.

yes. by the rules if measured to the end of the extensions (not including the bar end shifters).

no. by the way they were going to interpret the rules at masters natz (i didn't go due to broken collarbone and don't know how they interpreted the rules there, but my understanding was they were measuring to the end of the shifter body).

and in case you were wondering, the saddle is 6.5cm behind bb.

g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

The .pdf mentioned previously indicated that measurements should be taken to the pivot point of the shifter. However, I can neither confirm nor deny whether that was indeed the case (since I didn't have any shifters).

In any case, I suspect that what psycholist was wondering about was the angle formed by your upper and lower arms (which can't exceed 120 deg).

I thought that the angle rule was only require to get a ME to 80cm. No?

Either way, Photoshop shows 112d for my forearm angle as I measure it.

g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

Sorry, I assumed that you had the bars out to 80 cm. If that's 75 cm then you're clearly built a lot differently than I am...at 75 cm, my upper arms would be nearly vertical!

Actually, there are no restrictions on arm angle unless you're asking for the exception from the 75 cm rule. I know this, since my position looks almost identical to Obree's current position, and it all legal. This is obviously a lot easier to accomplish for a smaller rider with longer legs...

BTW, any chang you could re-post the yaw sweep data of you 'supermanish' position compared to a standard position? I seached, but couldn't find it.

Nice video on how to do the Superman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKlycYjLEGw

No not at all. He entered the 25 mile champs a few years back but crashed out.

Xav

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

He does have a base bar on that bike, but it's just a very flat piece of metal, you can see it parallel to the underside of his arm. There are other photos of him using that setup (which is illegal for non Scottish UK time trials by the way) which show it a bit better, afraid I can't find them right now

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk