So this year is the first year that I have ever done more than one sprint tri over the summer. I started out the year with the lofty expectation of a HIM at the end of this summer with 2 sprints and an Oly before that. Followed a "competitive" training program pretty rigorously until the time inputs started calling for over 5-6 hours a week. I had bike issues and would miss the 4 hour weekend ride, or be too tired to go on the long run on sundays. Regardless I have learned a ton about the sport this year and I am really excited going forward, but really my training going into the half has really peaked at about 5-7 hours and now I am heading into the "taper phase" of my training plan. I had my first Olympic+ race this weekend(bike was 45k instead of 40) and I went 22:00 in the swim, 1:28 on the bike and 59:24 on the run. Felt great thru the swim and bike and first half of the run, but completely shut down the last 3 miles. Lots of walking and ice baths just to get my HR and Body temp to a manageable level. This was an extremely eye opening experience and gives me a new respect for the HIM and IM distances. Now with a nearly double the distance race looming I am simply concerned about my base. I think the half marathon could be pretty destructive, but I also don't want to be ridiculously tired for the race that I also hurt my overall performance and/or can't finish. Will it be more productive in the last 2 weeks to actually taper, or just continue to work on my base with a 7-10hr work week and focus on next year? Any advice from others more experienced is appreciated.
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Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Taper the last week and bike very very slow during your half and hope you finish the race.
Or don't do the race and train better next time.
Or don't do the race and train better next time.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Why do folks want to jump this fast into longer stuff is, well, ..
I did 3 years of sprints before I tried my first HIM, which was totally stupid.
Then I did another year of races, with some Olympic.
The year after I tried another HIM.
So, in 6 years, I tried just 2 HIM's. I was finding out quickly where my strengths were, and were not.
Go race a lot of short stuff. Enjoy the journey. Find out if exercise is a lifestyle for you or not.
I did my first full on like 6 hours per week of training, but that was after years of shorter stuff and training all year long.
Just go do the races, and have fun. Forget the "competitive" stuff.
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
I did 3 years of sprints before I tried my first HIM, which was totally stupid.
Then I did another year of races, with some Olympic.
The year after I tried another HIM.
So, in 6 years, I tried just 2 HIM's. I was finding out quickly where my strengths were, and were not.
Go race a lot of short stuff. Enjoy the journey. Find out if exercise is a lifestyle for you or not.
I did my first full on like 6 hours per week of training, but that was after years of shorter stuff and training all year long.
Just go do the races, and have fun. Forget the "competitive" stuff.
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
I did an OLY this weekend and wound up slower than expected. It got fairly warm by run time. Like you I was unable to push the pace I wanted on the run. For me I think the heat and zero taper combined to make for a frustrating day.
Take a look at your heart rate from the race. Try and back it off some for the HIM. Also make sure you have your nutrition dialed in. Crashing at the tail end of an OLY could be an indication that you've burned through all of your glycogen and you're simply out of gas. If that's the case then pacing slower overall should help but you're going to need a solid nutrition plan as well.
Good luck. I did my first HIM woefully undertrained several years back and wound up walking the back half of the run. It took me a few years to learn how to really train and fuel for the distance. Count on this one as being a benchmark and a huge learning experience.
Take a look at your heart rate from the race. Try and back it off some for the HIM. Also make sure you have your nutrition dialed in. Crashing at the tail end of an OLY could be an indication that you've burned through all of your glycogen and you're simply out of gas. If that's the case then pacing slower overall should help but you're going to need a solid nutrition plan as well.
Good luck. I did my first HIM woefully undertrained several years back and wound up walking the back half of the run. It took me a few years to learn how to really train and fuel for the distance. Count on this one as being a benchmark and a huge learning experience.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Your hesitations about the HIM are probably well placed. Seems to me your options are:
1) if you can, defer to next year and chalk it up to learning
2) if the race offers aquabike option, do that. If not, just plan on a DNF after the bike.
3) go slow on the bike and start practicing a walk/jog plan now for the run--and expect it to be not fun at all.
No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
1) if you can, defer to next year and chalk it up to learning
2) if the race offers aquabike option, do that. If not, just plan on a DNF after the bike.
3) go slow on the bike and start practicing a walk/jog plan now for the run--and expect it to be not fun at all.
No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
was it extraordinarily hot/humid for your oly? your swim time was pretty good, so thats a nice take-a-way.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tfleeger]
[ In reply to ]
Yea it was about 97...started a sprint before us so we didn't start til after 8:00 heat index was brutal. I appreciate your optimism in a world of Debbie Downers haha, but yea swimming is my strongest element. Not worried about "finishing the race" I have the physical and mental capacity to get it done, more or less looking for advice on how to perform better than I did and in making the distance transition. REally trying to see if taper will help or be less productive than training through it and taking a day or two off before hand with small taper work.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
There are a ton of factors to consider.
Will your HIM be at a similar (or worse) temp? If so -- your fitness level is probably too low. You will be looking at walking most of the half marathon. I am betting you could finish but be miserable.
If better temperatures likely then you have a solid chance. Heat can zap a ton of performance from folks (I know it kills me).
How did you pace your Oly? As someone else said, your swim was solid -- were you cooking it or was it a relaxed swim? The swim in your HIM should be the easiest part of your day. Like almost painfully easy. Even if you're capable of much more -- give up 4+ mins on a 1.2 mile swim PR and just be relaxed. You should get out of the water feeling like it was a warm up practically.
Your bike -- did you overcook it? Likely you dont have a PM -- what about HR? Did you track that at all? You should aim to take an HIM bike in Z2 for your level of fitness and being a first-timer with limited Tri experience. In an Oly you can get away with more but clearly something was overdone and usually it's the bike. You likely should have biked around 1:35 in your Oly. So if the course for HIM is similar you should aim for a time around 3:15-3:20.
Run -- with any sort of heat - a run walk method is normal for the undertrained. In fact run-walk through aid stations is the norm at any HIM for non-racers. Especially in heat. I would try for your last long run to do a run walk schedule to simulate the race. No shame in a bit of walking. Bad when it turns into walking for miles on end. You start your run/walk on mile 1 and dont wait to blow up.
Will your HIM be at a similar (or worse) temp? If so -- your fitness level is probably too low. You will be looking at walking most of the half marathon. I am betting you could finish but be miserable.
If better temperatures likely then you have a solid chance. Heat can zap a ton of performance from folks (I know it kills me).
How did you pace your Oly? As someone else said, your swim was solid -- were you cooking it or was it a relaxed swim? The swim in your HIM should be the easiest part of your day. Like almost painfully easy. Even if you're capable of much more -- give up 4+ mins on a 1.2 mile swim PR and just be relaxed. You should get out of the water feeling like it was a warm up practically.
Your bike -- did you overcook it? Likely you dont have a PM -- what about HR? Did you track that at all? You should aim to take an HIM bike in Z2 for your level of fitness and being a first-timer with limited Tri experience. In an Oly you can get away with more but clearly something was overdone and usually it's the bike. You likely should have biked around 1:35 in your Oly. So if the course for HIM is similar you should aim for a time around 3:15-3:20.
Run -- with any sort of heat - a run walk method is normal for the undertrained. In fact run-walk through aid stations is the norm at any HIM for non-racers. Especially in heat. I would try for your last long run to do a run walk schedule to simulate the race. No shame in a bit of walking. Bad when it turns into walking for miles on end. You start your run/walk on mile 1 and dont wait to blow up.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
You paid for the HIM, might as well do it.. I dont get all the calls to forfiet the race ...
You will finish, its not hard to finish the race.. You may end up walking a lot of it towards the end. Just finish it and add this to the experience bucket. Next time you will perform better.
As for your question: I would work hard and start to taper 2 weeks out. If you work on your base all 3 weeks and skip the taper you'll probably be very fatigued in the race.
You will finish, its not hard to finish the race.. You may end up walking a lot of it towards the end. Just finish it and add this to the experience bucket. Next time you will perform better.
As for your question: I would work hard and start to taper 2 weeks out. If you work on your base all 3 weeks and skip the taper you'll probably be very fatigued in the race.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
How far was the swim in your Oly+? If it was a typical Oly distance you had an awesome swim. Averaged 19 on the bike, and ran 9:30's on the 10k.
Sounds to me like you're getting into your head, but you are respecting the distance so kudos to you for that. It's good to question, but boost that confidence level!
Based on those times and averages, I think you will do better than you're thinking. Just race smart and not in the moment. Drop your averages back a bit and don't become speed racer every time somebody passes you on the course. Your goal is not to win the race or an AG, you have no reason to go after others, stick to your race plan as you are racing for your own success and nothing else. Do yourself a favor and study the course, know what you are in for. Calm swim or chop? Are there hills on the bike or run? Will their be shade? What will the temperature be on race day and will it be humid? These little details will help guide your plan for the day and can save you from making a very big mistake early on that will catch up to you later in the day.
There is lots to question, but the most important answer to all of them I think for you will be nutrition. You have got to dial that in, it will be crucial, especially since it sounds like you'll be pushing to your distance boundaries. Keep your body fueled. Get your calories, get your salt, stay hydrated. Be prepared. Mentally accept the fact you will be on the course for 5-7 hours and remember that when you are half way through the 13.1 run. Your race day will be what you make it, make it a fun day because it is an awesome day. First HIM!
These things are rarely about luck, so I will wish you a great race. You should drop a race report back here.
Which race by the way?
Sincerely,
A Non professional, Father, Family Man, Desk Job having, 40-50hr work week, age group triathlete
Regards,
J. Smith
Sounds to me like you're getting into your head, but you are respecting the distance so kudos to you for that. It's good to question, but boost that confidence level!
Based on those times and averages, I think you will do better than you're thinking. Just race smart and not in the moment. Drop your averages back a bit and don't become speed racer every time somebody passes you on the course. Your goal is not to win the race or an AG, you have no reason to go after others, stick to your race plan as you are racing for your own success and nothing else. Do yourself a favor and study the course, know what you are in for. Calm swim or chop? Are there hills on the bike or run? Will their be shade? What will the temperature be on race day and will it be humid? These little details will help guide your plan for the day and can save you from making a very big mistake early on that will catch up to you later in the day.
There is lots to question, but the most important answer to all of them I think for you will be nutrition. You have got to dial that in, it will be crucial, especially since it sounds like you'll be pushing to your distance boundaries. Keep your body fueled. Get your calories, get your salt, stay hydrated. Be prepared. Mentally accept the fact you will be on the course for 5-7 hours and remember that when you are half way through the 13.1 run. Your race day will be what you make it, make it a fun day because it is an awesome day. First HIM!
These things are rarely about luck, so I will wish you a great race. You should drop a race report back here.
Which race by the way?
Sincerely,
A Non professional, Father, Family Man, Desk Job having, 40-50hr work week, age group triathlete
Regards,
J. Smith
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
An Oly is an all out effort. A HIM is a slower paced metered effort. If I raced a HIM like an OLY I would crack on the bike and the run would be a death march. Can you ride your bike 56 miles at a reasonable pace and feel OK off the bike? Can you run 13.1 miles? If you can't do either of these things it is asking a lot to complete a HIM and feel good about it. If you know you can do it, just dial it down a notch and have fun.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
I would definitely use HRM or PM to keep your bike and beginning of run paced. This should be easier on a flat course. I would also make sure your hydration setup and nutrition plan (calories/hr 300+(?) are tight. Maybe even write max hrm/power and times to eat on your arm - sounds dumb but so what.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [nickwisconsin]
[ In reply to ]
nickwisconsin wrote:
An Oly is an all out effort. A HIM is a slower paced metered effort........Agree with this. Having a rough time in the last parts of an Olympic race is not an indicator that you can't handle a half IM. I don't get why some folks here feel everyone needs to race short sprint races for years and years before attempting a longer race.
Pace yourself slowly on the bike, like really slow as in enjoyable sunday ride. You'll make it through fine IMHO.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [jsmith82]
[ In reply to ]
jsmith82 wrote:
How far was the swim in your Oly+? If it was a typical Oly distance you had an awesome swim. Averaged 19 on the bike, and ran 9:30's on the 10k. Sounds to me like you're getting into your head, but you are respecting the distance so kudos to you for that. It's good to question, but boost that confidence level!
Agree. I'm not sure why everybody else is seemingly freaking and acting like he's in no way prepared. My first Olympic I did 29 on the swim. Granted I'm a slow swimmer and it was an rough and cold ocean swim. I averaged 19 on the bike and 7:50 on the run. So better than him on the run but overall not that much different. Sounds like it was a hot day and maybe his nutrition was off or overcooked it on the bike. It's not like he came in at 3:20.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [SBRcoffee]
[ In reply to ]
SBRcoffee wrote:
nickwisconsin wrote:
An Oly is an all out effort. A HIM is a slower paced metered effort........Agree with this. Having a rough time in the last parts of an Olympic race is not an indicator that you can't handle a half IM. I don't get why some folks here feel everyone needs to race short sprint races for years and years before attempting a longer race.
Pace yourself slowly on the bike, like really slow as in enjoyable sunday ride. You'll make it through fine IMHO.
Just depends if a person is a one and out type triathlete.
My comment is there is so much more to our sport than long distance racing. For some, this is great. But for others, short stuff is much more fun.
I was talking to a guy at Donner yesterday about this. So many long course folks race like their one long race a season. If something happens, well.
I have race over 10 already in 6 months. When one goes bad, I just get ready for the next one.
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [walie]
[ In reply to ]
Walie, I'll be sure to think about you any time I want to walk...trolling is always appreciated to fuel the fire....
For those of you with actual advice it is well appreciated. Honestly my swim should be at about a 20:00 flat for an oly swim but I held out a little bit. I will keep this plan in the HIM and just make sure I am strong and smooth. I probably pushed the bike a hair averaged about 155 hr and typically train in the 145-155 range. I will probably try to pull back a little during the HIM.
My HR skyrocketed during the 2nd half of the run hitting almost 180(max hr is about 182). So i would walk until i got into the 140 range and then push til i started approaching 170 again and then back off and kept going until I held the last mile running and kept HRM at about 165. Had lofty ambitions on the run to hold an 8:30 pace, but went out in an 8:09 and it was a slow explosion from there( 8:58,9:53,12:38,11:20, 9:30) from there. I think based on what everyone here is saying its more important to base my pace on my plan then how I'm feeling. Feeling good off the bike doesn't mean I'll set a new pr on the 10k. Probably shooting for about 10:00 miles on the HIM and hopefully that will keep my HR down just have to get used to running slower than I want to.
Will work hard on the nutrition front between now and then too, as I know this is another weakness that will play a much bigger role in the distance jump thanks for all your input.
For those of you with actual advice it is well appreciated. Honestly my swim should be at about a 20:00 flat for an oly swim but I held out a little bit. I will keep this plan in the HIM and just make sure I am strong and smooth. I probably pushed the bike a hair averaged about 155 hr and typically train in the 145-155 range. I will probably try to pull back a little during the HIM.
My HR skyrocketed during the 2nd half of the run hitting almost 180(max hr is about 182). So i would walk until i got into the 140 range and then push til i started approaching 170 again and then back off and kept going until I held the last mile running and kept HRM at about 165. Had lofty ambitions on the run to hold an 8:30 pace, but went out in an 8:09 and it was a slow explosion from there( 8:58,9:53,12:38,11:20, 9:30) from there. I think based on what everyone here is saying its more important to base my pace on my plan then how I'm feeling. Feeling good off the bike doesn't mean I'll set a new pr on the 10k. Probably shooting for about 10:00 miles on the HIM and hopefully that will keep my HR down just have to get used to running slower than I want to.
Will work hard on the nutrition front between now and then too, as I know this is another weakness that will play a much bigger role in the distance jump thanks for all your input.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
tristartriguy wrote:
Walie, I'll be sure to think about you any time I want to walk...trolling is always appreciated to fuel the fire....I figured this would do a better job at fueling the fire:
tristartriguy wrote:
First olympic distance race coming up this weekend, still have a HIM at the end of the summer, but I'm doing this as part of my training. Still underachieving in my total training time, but think that my performance in this will really amp me up to finish out my tough training phase hard whether I do well or perform poorly.Get to it!
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
I did my first international distance (same exact distances ....incl the 45k bike.....you just completed), back in April (32:xx; 1:19:xx and 52:xx) -- I'm 51.
I also have my first HIM coming up in 12 days. I can't give you any advice on how to run your race. I can tell you that I have ZERO preconceived notions of how long I'll be out there, though. I'm going into it with the mindset of my "A" 70.3 is still a couple of months out. The first one will be a learning experiment.
Good luck.
I also have my first HIM coming up in 12 days. I can't give you any advice on how to run your race. I can tell you that I have ZERO preconceived notions of how long I'll be out there, though. I'm going into it with the mindset of my "A" 70.3 is still a couple of months out. The first one will be a learning experiment.
Good luck.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Sounds like you're a bit undertrained but also you have some heat management issues. Can't do much about the undertrained part except to make sure you ride very easy and stay on top of your nutrition and hydration. Your goal is to get off the bike in a good enough state to tackle the 1/2 marathon. On the run set an HR cap somewhere at low/mid zone 3 and don't go over it. Start icing right out of T1, throw ice in your kit, under your hat, carry some ice in hand. It will get you through at least half way to the next aid station. Keep your body wet all the time. Your best bet to survive this is to keep your core temp down whatever it takes. If you make it to mile 10 in good shape you can then go hard for the last 5k. You can also walk the aid stations, get what you need and give the legs a short 30-45 seconds break.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [sp1ke]
[ In reply to ]
Ditto on the ice recommendation of the last poster. I did a HIM earlier this year and my heart rate really shot up due (I think) to heat. Ended up half walking / half running the run course. Ice and sponges...ice and sponges.
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Do your last long run 2 weeks out, and last long ride a week out (that's enough recovery time).
During the race make sure to eat and drink on a regular schedule. Know how much water and carbs you can process (for me it's 1L of water and 4 gels (400kcal)/hr on the bike.....I set my watch to beep every 15min. so I can take a gel).
A HIM is long enough that nutrition and pacing mistakes can really hammer you in a way they just don't in an Oly. Surging up that hill in hour2 on the bike can come back and hammer you at mile8 on the run.
Keep the swim and first 1/2 of the bike easy; any time lost there is a lot better than losing 10min/mile walking during the run.
ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
During the race make sure to eat and drink on a regular schedule. Know how much water and carbs you can process (for me it's 1L of water and 4 gels (400kcal)/hr on the bike.....I set my watch to beep every 15min. so I can take a gel).
A HIM is long enough that nutrition and pacing mistakes can really hammer you in a way they just don't in an Oly. Surging up that hill in hour2 on the bike can come back and hammer you at mile8 on the run.
Keep the swim and first 1/2 of the bike easy; any time lost there is a lot better than losing 10min/mile walking during the run.
ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Olympic distance is easy to mess up, i wouldn't be too concerned if you know you can ride 90k and run 21.1k.
How was your pacing on the Oly run ? Go out really hard and fade massively ? If so, do the opposite for the half mara, go out easier than target pace and assess how you feel.
How was your pacing on the Oly run ? Go out really hard and fade massively ? If so, do the opposite for the half mara, go out easier than target pace and assess how you feel.
Last edited by:
TriguyBlue: Jul 25, 16 16:56
Re: Struggled in my first Oly, HIM in 3 weeks [tristartriguy]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
Followed a "competitive" training program pretty rigorously until the time inputs started calling for over 5-6 hours a week.Dude you answered your own question. 5-6hr a week is rigorous? (use your Clay Davis voice from The Wire for this->) Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit that's like a normal first 2 days of the week training for most of my athletes after they did more than that on the weekend.
I wonder how you wonder about the wheels falling off.
If it were me, and I'm not you, I'd probably bang out a few 10-14hr weeks then taper down starting about 3d before the event. You're not fit enough for a long taper.
Also there is no such thing as base training. Everything you do adds to you base.
For once, and it really, really pains me to do this, but I'm going to agree with h20fun and ask why do folks jump into the long stuff when the water is so very, very deep and it's obvious folks are getting in waaaaaaaaaaaay the fuck over their heads?
Or to paraphrase mdtrihard said maybe it's best you don't do the race and train smarter/more for next time.
Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta
Brain, will give one back. After racing Donner yesterday and getting my buck kicked on the bike with the big hills, and then looking at race results the last few years compared to training, looks like I need to get off my trainer next season and get back to at least one long, hilly outside bike ride a week. I just cannot get it done on the trainer. :(
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep