St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos

Apr 22, 14 6:32

Post #1 of 18 (6717 views)

I am doing St. George Half in a few weeks and I was looking over the course maps and elevation gains and noticed a few discrepancies: 1) the bike course elevation gain is listed at 4,042' on the WTC website, but every Map My Ride map lists the elevation gain for the course in the range of 2,400-2,800'. 2) The run course elevation is listed on the IWTC website as 2,059', whereas all Map My Run maps have elevation in the range of 700-1000'.

These are significant differences in elevation gains, and will have a large effect on my pacing strategy (ie. blow up sooner, or blow up later). I was curious as to whether anyone had first hand experience with this course and data that shows the correct gain for the bike and run. BTW, I emailed WTC 2 weeks ago and they are "working on trying to figure out this discrepancy". But I have not heard an answer yet. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Mat

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 7:02

Post #2 of 18 (6687 views)

Hi Mat, I'm racing SG too and heading out soon for a 70mi ride with 7.5k climbing:)

I did the race last year. I don't have the #'s but I will say the upper numbers seem accurate. The bike is tough before you get to Snow Canyon and then the fun begins so save something for it. The run is tough too, you climb out of town with a few rollers and back down to another part of town to the turnaround...and back. Remember there is NO shade so the sun will be on you all day...it got hot.
Good luck

Train safe & smart
Bob

Last edited by: Longboarder: Apr 22, 14 7:03

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 7:02

Post #3 of 18 (6685 views)

Here is the information from my Garmin last year

Bike
Elevation Gain: 2,853 ft Elevation Loss: 3,096 ft Min Elevation: 2,803 ft Max Elevation: 4,089 ft

Run
Elevation Gain: 1,024 ft Elevation Loss: 1,020 ft Min Elevation: 2,732 ft Max Elevation: 3,221 ft

KP

"Make friends with pain and you will never be alone" Ken Chlouber

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 7:13

Post #4 of 18 (6662 views)

Here's my Garmin data from last year:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/308707458

I had 3,894 elevation gain, which jives fairly well with the WTC total. There is a larger elevation loss from the difference between Sand Hollow and the finish on Main Street in St. George.

I did the full 2x and the half last year, and my 2cents on pacing strategy is to spin up the hills (of which there are many) to make sure you have enough in the tank for a very hilly run. The last climb, up Snow Canyon, is the longest so if you're really feeling fantastic at that point you'll have ample opportunity to burn a few more matches there if you like.

Unless -- you know for sure that you're so strong that you can ride that kind of course hard and still do well on a tough half.
There are a few people like that, but not too many.

Have fun, and see you down there!

blog: transitionfour.com
twitter: @tritweeter

Last edited by: transitionfour: Apr 22, 14 7:15

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [kapfast] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 7:46

Post #5 of 18 (6641 views)

Kapfast,
Thanks for the info. Your numbers are more inline with what is posted on "Map My Ride", and I also like them more. Sounds like the WTC has it wrong.

Thanks.

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [kapfast] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 8:03

Post #6 of 18 (6622 views)

Thanks for the numbers Kapfast I guess I'm just old and slow so it seemed harder.

I'm looking forward to my first Tri of the season.

Train safe & smart
Bob

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [transitionfour] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 8:36

Post #7 of 18 (6603 views)

Well, now I am confused (see Kapfast's post above). Thanks for the sharing your pacing strategy. I think regardless of whether the gain is ~2900 or ~4000', it deserves respect. If anyone has any other data or opinions to share, I would love to hear them.

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 9:00

Post #8 of 18 (6581 views)

What do you use to measure elevation gains on your workouts/races?

I ask since the different computers out there use different systems like gps for elevation, gps w/ map correction, barometer etc. I've found it helpful to browse through race files on strava and search for others using the same device as me (garmin 500), average a few of those from different years and you should be within 10% of what to expect.

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 9:23

Post #9 of 18 (6564 views)

Here's from the run last year too FYI:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/308707462

So, that looks to be in the 900+ range. I believe this year they are cutting out the little country club in-and-out in exchange for a back and forth up on Red Cliffs, so that should lower the elevation gain by a little bit, maybe 40-60'.

blog: transitionfour.com
twitter: @tritweeter

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 9:47

Post #10 of 18 (6536 views)

Last year I had 3,605 feet gain on the bike and 1,030 on the run.

The bike is fun, but be wary of the climb to Snow Canyon park. It is late in the bike and isn't easy.

The run is 13 miles of hills. No other way to explain it.

Have fun.

http://www.speedtheory.ca

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 9:50

Post #11 of 18 (6532 views)

I had 3230' of gain on the bike and 1348' on the run.
The bike elevation is from my Edge 500 (barometric, so probably pretty good, although I always seem to get less elevation than other guys I ride with who use a 500) and the elevation on the run is topo data from Strava (Timex Global Trainer watch).

The run is hard - don't underestimate it.

----------------------------------
http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [drsteve] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 10:13

Post #12 of 18 (6518 views)

I did it last year and am doing again this year. I would say Snow Canyon is not as bad as some make it seem. The real challenge is the run. The run is brutal. Going up Diagonal St. and then Red Cliff's parkway after a difficult bike is just inhuman. Hopefully you are OK with running hills, if not it will be a painful day.

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 11:33

Post #13 of 18 (6480 views)

Elevation is fractal.

Measuring every uphill bump will give you more elevation gain than normalizing the course by only counting the longer and/or steeper climbs. Different computers do this differently. So we get different results. Sometimes vastly different. Especially so for undulating course with relentless short hills.

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [captainshapely] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 15:12

Post #14 of 18 (6417 views)

Yeah, I also had 3535 for the bike:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/308267910

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 15:35

Post #15 of 18 (6401 views)

Bryancd wrote:

Yeah, I also had 3535 for the bike:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/308267910

I noticed that you had "elevation correction" on.
If I turn it on for mine it shows almost exactly the same, 3525.

blog: transitionfour.com
twitter: @tritweeter

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [transitionfour] [ In reply to ]

Apr 22, 14 15:40

Post #16 of 18 (6397 views)

transitionfour wrote:

Bryancd wrote:

Yeah, I also had 3535 for the bike:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/308267910

I noticed that you had "elevation correction" on.
If I turn it on for mine it shows almost exactly the same, 3525.

And I have 1047 on the run.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 14 8:13

Post #17 of 18 (6308 views)

Thanks everyone. It sounds like the bike is in the 3500' range (WTC= 4052), and the run is in the 1000' range (WTC=2059'). I trained for the WTC elevations, so I consider anything less than what they posted to be to my advantage. Good luck to all who are racing!

Re: St. George 70.3 Bike Elevation Gain Problemos [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 14 13:38

Post #18 of 18 (6266 views)

Thanks for adding your garmin file...that's cool. How did you maintain ~ 150 bpm? What does the power file look like? Great for planning to see an actual file!

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