forgot to add:

I will drink lots of water as well

Will use 400 to 600 mg caffeine supplements

I will be doing these 100mi rides weekly, with the 500 mile week at camp in December

thx

Gary

Your calories seem pretty low for an 8.5 hour ride. You're probably going to burn 4,000-6,000 calories. Your meal plan provides about 2,500 calories.

Eat a bigger breakfast and have a bunch of protein and a little fat. Protein is important for recovery and endurance (and eating it before the long workout is the best time to eat it). I do 4-6 egg whites, 2-3 pieces of wheat toast and a banana.

I like to eat some real food at about the 3/5 mark in my long rides. I usually stop for a hamburger because it's portable. You won't believe how happy (and good) it makes you to put some real food in your stomach. Makes me feel brand new.

With it being too early to do math, I'll give this a half ass shot. Aim for 300 calories (350ish if you are a big guy) per hour. Quite a few studies recently say that 300 is the max a person can absorb in an hour. Over 8.5 hours, the rest just sits in your stomach causing problems later. Ultimately, if you can do more and not have any problems, go for it. You'll probably be burning more than twice that many calories, but 300 is a good starting point.

As far as the caffeine....I wouldn't suggest taking it until the last 2 hours of each day. If there is a hell, I'll most certainly end up there and my own personal punishment will be riding while coming down from a caffeine high...it's not pleasant.

I generally recommend, on the bike:

2 calories of carbohydrate per hour per pound of bodyweight

1 ounce of water per 7 pounds bodyweight

4 mg sodium (6.7 mg salt) per hour

I would also add a small amout of protein to the breakfast to slow the entry of sugar into the blood.

Ken

---

Ken Mierke
Head Coach, Fitness Concepts
http://www.Fitness-Concepts.com
Author, The Triathlete's Guide to Run Training

From Kim Brown on the Infinitnutrition site:

CALCULATING CYCLING CALORIES


Determining your hourly calorie replenishment while cycling Example

How many calories does cycling burn? This is one of the questions that riders ask most, but there is no precise answer. It depends on many factors: body size, type of bike, pace, terrain, and wind conditions, to name a few. It is known, however, that the energy used in cycling increases dramatically with speed because of the increase in wind resistance.The adjoining chart shows calorie consumption estimates for different body weights and speeds. These numbers were developed by physiologist James Hagberg, PhD. Simply choose your average speed and multiply your weight by the coefficient for that speed and you’ll have a close approximation of the calories you burn per minute.Going uphill adds to this energy cost. It’s estimated that 22 extra calories are burned for every 100 feet of elevation gained, so factor this in. (This value is for a cyclist and bike weighing a total of 176 pounds). Coasting downhill burns no extra calories, of course, but the combination of going up and down always uses more energy than riding on flat ground.

AVERAGE SPEED (MPH) COEFFICIENT (CALORIES/POUND/MINUTE) 8 0.0295 10 0.0355 12 0.0426 14 0.0512 15 0.0561 16 0.0615 17 0.0675 18 0.0740 19 0.0811 20 0.0891 21 0.0975 23 0.1173 25 0.1411

*Table published in Bicycling Magazine’s Complete Bood of Road Cycling Skills, p. 156

The maximum rate of absorption of calories during training falls about 30-50% of your total expenditure. Those athletes with sensitive stomachs should aim at replacing 30% of total calories expended.

[/url]Determining your hourly calorie replenishment while cycling:

Step 1:
Calorie Coefficient x Total Body Weight (lbs) x 60 min = Hourly calorie expenditure

Step 2:
Hourly calorie expenditure x estimated finish time (hours) = Total calorie expenditure

Step 3: (if course profile is needed)
Total calorie expenditure + (22 calories x (Net elevation gain in feet ÷ 100 feet)) = Total calorie expenditure

Step 4:
0.3-0.5 x Total calorie expenditure = Total calories needed on bike

Step 5:
Total calories needed on bike ÷ Estimated finish time (hours) = Hourly calorie replacement needs

[/url]Example: Kim is a 105-lb triathlete with a sensitive stomach. She will be competing in an Ironman event, which has a net elevation gain of 800 ft over 112 miles of riding. Kim averages 20 mph during long rides so estimated finish time for this Ironman course is 5 hours 36 min.

Calorie Coefficient for 20mph: 0.0891

Step 1: 0.0891 x 105 lbs x 60 min = 561 calories
Step 2: 561 calories x 5.6 hours = 3,143 calories
Step 3: 3,143 calories + (22 calories x (800 feet ÷ 100 feet) = 3,319 calories
Step 4: 0.3 x 3,319 calories = 996 calories needed while cycling the 112 mile course
Step 5: 996 calories ÷ 5.6 hours = 178 calories/hour replacement rate

165 lbs, the caffeine is for the last 20 to 30 miles

thx

the above food = 257 calorie per hour, so I need to seat another 400 calories to make it to 300 per hour

mind you this is for excersize and does not include the Basil Metabolic Rate requirements of 100 cals per hour

Do I need to add more calories to reach the Basil requirements as well?

I only want to break even and not eat too much, trying to get to the high 150's for my weight

Gary, I hope that you eat lots of real food after 4 pm because it seems like you will be at a HUGE deficit each day. If you do not replinish well you will be digging a deeper and deep hole of glycogen depletion each day. By day 5 (if not sooner) this could have some negative effects on the quality of your training. How many meals are you planning on eating in the afternoon/evening? What are they going to be composed of?

On a different note, why oatmeal out of the packets? It is more economical and better for the envioronment (less waste) if you get a cannister and measure it out with measuring cups.

instant oatmeal = I work 50 hours and train 15-20, every minute saved is extra sleep

for camp, I will be carrying all my food for the most part, no SAG, 100 miles per day and 7000+ ft climbing per day, big high carb dinners and breakfasts I suppose ... and I plan to bring my automatic Saeco espresso maching for pre and post ride shots

;)

- Gary

I wasn't talking about instant oatmeal (I use it myself), I was talking about indvidual the packets. Grabbing the measuring cup vs. tearing open an envelope is essentially the same time (maybe 1-2 seconds difference). But I am splitting hairs here, if you have a good system stick with it. It is good to hear that you will be eating lots of high carbs each night.

Will you be riding w/ a power meter? If so, you should be able to dial in your caloric needs with a high degree of accuracy after the first day.

Go back to your power files, and use the joules expended as a rough estimate of the calories burned for the kind of ride you are expecting.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

 
Gary, I'd look into CarboPro. You can get tons of calories into a single bottle.

http://www.sportquestdirect.com/

I would add protein and fat to your breakfast and make it larger. Maybe some peanut butter, yogurt and/or eggs. Oatmeal and bananas will burn pretty fast and won't last much of your ride.

If you get in touch with Dr A Coggan its worth picking his brain on this as he did a few studies pertinent to your question. I had a few email discussions with him way back when he use to visit gordos forum. Also search for his work on pubmed.

We were talking about the 60 gram per hour (240 cals) findings in one of his studies, but he did mention that it is unknown how much a body can assimilate since the study we were talking about involved exercising to exhaustion which we don't do in IM type racing. Gordo and Molina both talk about training the body to assimilate 400plus cals per hour, which is a heck of a lot.

One way to look at it is not how much you should eat but what you can assimilate given the intensity of your session. The suggestion about eating more breakfast is a good one since you have time to digest. Also if your rides have different segments where the intensity is varied then eat more when you are going easier instead of spacing the caloric intake evenly.

---

__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

Gary, why are you riding so much!!??

Not sure what you mean here...

If you mean to consume the caffeine early, or pre-ride, such that you will have more energy for the last 20-30 miles of the ride, then you are exactly right. If you mean to consume the caffeine near the end of your ride for a jolt to help you finish, that's exactly wrong! (well, not exactly, you'll still get the mental jolt, but you'll be missing out on the beneficial effect caffeine has on endurance efforts).

Scott

"Gary, why are you riding so much!!?? "

I don't ask questions, I just follow orders.

P.S., to put it in perspective, nationally competitive CAT 1 riders ride 400 miles per week.

So I really am not riding very much.

;)

Thanks for the clarification Scott. I need Vitamin V (Vivarin) for the last 20 miles, so how long before the last 20 should I take it?

- Gary

The exact mechanism is unknown, but studies have shown that ingesting caffeine 60-120 minutes before exercise can significantly increase endurance.

This site gives a pretty good (albiet brief) review of the many touted ergonomic aids out there.

http://www.cptips.com/nutmyt.htm

Unlike most other ergonomic aids, there is a ton of good science in regards to caffeine. I think the synopsis on the above site summarizes it well, but if you want more specific info, it's easily obtained on the web.

Scott

"nationally competitive CAT 1 riders ride 400 miles per week."

Well, some of them do...but I think if they are, they're either a)wasting a lot of time, or b)way overtrained.

There are a LOT of nationally competitive Cat 1 riders in the Northwest, and very few are doing that sort of milage. I'd say most are in the 12-16 hr range MAX. Even most of the local pros (of which there are several) don't touch that sort of milage until they're prepping for Philly Week or one of the big stage races.

Willet may be an exception on 4-10 hrs a week, as he has a lot of talent, but I think his ideas are pretty sound, especially if you're training and working full time.




Seriously, if you're doing 3 disciplines, I understand you have to do more hrs., but if you're just a bike racer??

you lost me ... 16-20 hours a week is what I will be doing, I don't see me reaching my goals on less

maybe if I was focusing on local stuff I could do less, but realistically, I am racing against CAT 1's who place top 20 in the Elite National TT ... so I have my work cut out for me

Scott M can attest to this as well

a 54 minute 40k will get you top 15 at masters Nationals TT ... you need to go under 52 to get on the podium in most cases, and probably 50-51 to win it

That is pro level speed - which takes pro level training

I'm riding 17 hours this week, no wonder I am slow at TT right now, it hurts to get up in the morning

I work full time as well, 40 to 45 hours per week

;)

and thanks to those who posted

I have it dialed

coach estimated 4500 calories for the entire day (was going to do 5000 but chopped 500 in effort to have me lose more weight)

- gary

Gary, why the new handle?

I would suggest regular oatmeal for breakfast. I am not sure if you buy into this or not but allegedly the parts of the oats that are removed to make it "instant" (can't remember if it's the bran or germ) is the part you need nutritionally. At the very least it couldn't hurt to eat the garden variety.

Good luck,
Dan
www.aiatriathlon.com

---

http://www.aiatriathlon.com