I've had that recommended to me in the past by my Dr.

Do you think this is due to the plantar-flexed position during skiing? Essentially a day of skiing is like a day-long stretching session for your PF? I find stretching and massage really helps my niggles, so I wouldn't be surprised.

That is exactly what I think happens. It is also why I think wearing the boots at night would be beneficial.

I have tried the Strasbourg sock in the past and it is way too uncomfortable for me to sleep while wearing it. By contrast, my ski boots have been custom fitted to my feet and I can wear them for 6-8 hours without any issues. I'm not sure how well I would be able to sleep in them. If I decide to find out I will check back in and let you know.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

"my ski boots have been custom fitted to my feet and I can wear them for 6-8 hours without any issues"

did you have custom footbeds made for your ski boots?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I'm confused... So an active day of pointing your toes downhill (plantarflexion) seems to help? When every other stretch/treatment/etc focuses on pulling your toes up (dorsiflexion)?

Huh.

I think you may be confused (or am I?) When skiing, you lean forward a bit, so dorsiflexion is occuring.

Yes.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

*knock on some wood* PF can be very very stubborn and you don't want to jinx it. I don't ever take PF for granted. Although I do think stretching is important for the PF, I think it has more to do with the stretching of the calves and then the calves not pulling on the PF.

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Yes, apologies, I meant dorsiflexion!

Of course, you would want to bend your knees, right? (Clearly, I don't ski downhill!)

Yes -- the ski boot itself, though, angles forward. So it's actually putting your knee ahead of your foot, and you end up keeping your knees bent just to stay balanced.

"Yes."

here's one of the things that make me scratch my head. it is exactly the same process, exactly the same product, same blank, same everything, to make custom footbeds for cycling shoes. so i call retail stores like burlington ski rack in vermont, which is a great ski shop and a great bike shop. they do almost no custom cycling footbeds (according to the person i spoke to). why?

i know ski shops that will almost refuse to sell you a boot if they don't also sell you a custom footbed. footbalance. masterfeet. sidas. something. but bike shops? nope.

here's my question: if you spent all your cycling miles in a cycling shoe with a footbed such as you have in your ski boot, do you think you'd have plantar fasciitis? i know you don't know the answer to that question (neither do i). but i find the question interesting.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It certainly makes the wheels of thought turn.

My PF seems to flare more when I push my run miles higher. Perhaps I should be looking at some sort of custom footbed for my running shoes. The thought doesn't excite me but the idea of no longer having PF would make it worth it.

FWIW, running in stiffer shoes seems to help make my PF less troublesome. I am logging quite a few miles in an old pair of Hoka Stinsons that would normally never make it in to my running rotation. I know from past experience that these particular shoes help cool things down in my feet.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Less weight on the foot during cycling?

Peak pedal forces are often about half bodyweight.

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

"Perhaps I should be looking at some sort of custom footbed for my running shoes."

i ONLY run in custom footbeds and i'm really picky about the kind, and about who casts my foot. that said, i think it's worth a try to see whether superfeet or currex sole or other custom or semi-custom footbed would work.

just, this is a different product. in both skiing and cycling you're not accelerating only to come to a sudden stop, as you do when your foot hits the ground. it's like holding a hammer up to the wall and pushing on it, versing swinging the hammer and hitting the wall. which is the wall going to feel more?

so the run footbed needs to absorb the blow, and support the arch, and the shoe needs to absorb the blow and support the footbed. so, to me, both the footbed and the choice of shoe is very specific to my needs.

this is entirely, 100 percent antithetical to natural or minimal or barefoot. fine. for those who are minimalists and who are offended by my view, blow me. and i mean that in love. i'm simply telling you what has worked for ME (that is, it has worked more often than it has not worked). i do get running injuries. i just do NOT get plantar fasciitis.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"Less weight on the foot during cycling? Peak pedal forces are often about half bodyweight."

i think i broached some of this in the post i wrote just before this one. it seems to me what's happened here is the OP had plantar fasciitis running, and the act of skiing cured it, almost like skiing itself was physical therapy for the running injury.

that's intriguing. you can't argue with success, especially because others in this thread seem to have a similar experience. i therefore posit whether cycling might perform a similar function under the right conditions.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yup!!!

Good points in your post, especially about the impact in running, where there's virtually none in cycling.

For most riders, is the ankle dorsiflexed as in skiing, or opposite - toes down?

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

"is the ankle dorsiflexed as in skiing, or opposite - toes down?"

mildly dorsiflexed. you have to be a heel scraper in cycling to mimic the plantar angle you get in skiing. and there is no float in skiing. the weight is slightly more midfoot in skiing, perhaps.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Where do you get these custom foot beds made?

I dunno, Slowman. Working in orthopedics I've thrown a lot of things at plantar fasciitis, none with consistent success. I've seen as much luck with cheap OTC insoles as with custom, and for a lot less money.

Now the trick will be to get your Dr to prescribe a ski vacation for your PF. Then can you ' write-off' the cost of said trip ?

"Where do you get these custom foot beds made?"

you probably don't want to know. the technolgy is amfit. there's a guy in san diego who molds my foot. but it's digitized so i just call up he sends the file in they get made, they get shipped.

i think nowadays there are good technologies that have caught up or surpassed this. in my opinion, the problem (for reasons described above) is that the force on a running footbed is way higher than on a cycling footbed, so if you use a cycling footbed technology you have to bolster that with something underneath that keeps that footbed square to the horizon, and supports it. if you look at a cycling footbed, it's not flat on the bottom. running footbeds are, and they mate with the flat bottom most run shoes have (depending on construction) under the sock liner.

a moccasin style attachment between upper and midsole can be problematic for orthotics. hoka, they don't do that. pull out the sockliner, it's flat. that's a perfect match for my orthotic. and, because the midsole is not sculpted in the arch a hoka supports the footbed.

if i put a cycling orthotic in my hokas, no way jose. but if i supported that cycling orthotic with something under the heel, to keep it square in the shoe, maybe. footbalance does this. they've got a donut thing you glue to the footbed that makes a cycling footbed a running footbed. how well does this work? dunno.

but i have a footbalance set up in my workshop, so maybe i'll try it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman