There are others that know a lot more than I on the options such as trainerroad and zwifting (virtual racing against others). But I can tell you what I have which is probably about as cheap as you can go.

I have a Kurt Kenetic road machine which is about as cheap as you can go and get a good quality trainer. Maybe there are others quieter, but trainers are white noise and don't wake sleeping kids. It doesn't have any fancying things like a power meter or active resistance control.

I then run Golden Cheetah in training mode. GC has the option of playing videos like Sufferfest and real time plotting of your power vs the suggested Sufferfest workout. The power can either be your bike's power meter if you have one or a virtual power meter (GC has a power vs velocity profile for the Kurt, so it can estimate your power based on your wheel speed). To do all this you need GC (free), a laptop or computer, an ANT+ USB stick (~$30) and Sufferfest videos (like $12 an hour, but they have deals and sales). Sufferfest videos are basically footage from UCI road races which music overlaid on top and suggested workouts for you to follow. Sometimes, I just put on whatever show I have recorded instead of a Sufferfest video and do a 2X20 or some such workout.

mate, just get the fluid trainer you were going to get, some Sufferfest videos, at $10-12 a pop and train yourself stupid with structured workouts against a background of professional cyclist. If and when you decide to update to a computer controlled device, Kickr etc, you'll still be able to use the Sufferfest workouts.

btw, why do Amerikans say " school me in....." when what I think you mean is " please explain... "?

English is my second language, so I'm trying to understand the nuances of your use of your language... thank you.

Thanks for the info. I might try a set up like yours. I'm borrowing a KK Road Machine tonight and will check it all out.

Zwift does look cool, by the way.

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

There was a big thread on it if you can find it. Some people are really into it. I think the best review I saw said using Zwift is a bit like using Strava on your solo training rides. You go from doing your own thing to competing against your friends (real and virtual).

In my opinion, there are 4 levels of indoor bike training:

1. Trainer and the TV - gives indoor cycling a bad name, because it's boring and mostly ineffective.
2. Trainer with training videos with RPE - structured workouts using rate of perceived exertion will at least train you, but what exactly is "now ride at an 8/10 effort"?
3. Trainer with virtual or real power - TrainerRoad really turned the industry on its head with virtual power. I don't know if they were the first to do it, but the idea of reverse-engineering your output based on your trainer's slope, transmitting it using ANT+ or Bluetooth, and wrapping it up into a really nice computer app with lots of workouts and training plans definitely made this type of training available to a lot more people.
4. Smart trainer - provides the load, helping to keep it real. Expensive, but for marginal gains.

With that said, a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, TrainerRoad, Sufferfest videos and a good fan are an awesome, awesome combination. Entertaining (Sufferfest), measured (TrainerRoad), and not too crazy expensive (~$370 for a KK Road Machine, $10 a month for TR, ~$100 for ANT+ sensors, and ~$10 a video for Sufferfest).

Regarding Eurobike, KK is now offering their "Smart" trainer packages that includes their inRide product bundled with the Road Machine or Rock 'n Roll trainers. Other than that, I haven't seen too much that is trainer-related.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Yep, I'm about a dozen pages into that thread. It started out REALLY weird with some in-thread fighting. I sat here eating way too many m&ms. Now I feel I'm going to puke. lol

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

It really depends on your budget. Here is a general outline of the progression of levels.

1. If you want to minimize spending, all you need is a trainer. If you have a bike, you have everything else you need to ride indoors (you'll need a fan too if you don't already have on as it does get hot).

2. Next up is providing yourself with some external way to turn your trainer time into more of a structured workout than just turning the cranks while watching TV or making up your own workouts. There are various videos you can watch on a computer or via DVD that run you through workouts. Sufferfest is the best and really cheap (about $10-12 a video).

3. Next after that is some way to combine measuring your power output and using that to give you target levels during your workouts. This is where the fun, and potential dollars leaving your wallet, start. TrainerRoad is the basic thing here and a must have for $10 a month. With a few cheap add-ons (less than $100 investment) and a computer, it will give you virtual power (derived in real time via a formula of your wheel speed and specific trainer power curve) so instead of a workout that just says "go kind of hard now for 2 minutes" you get a graph and bouncing ball that shows you "go 257 watts for 2 minutes and you're slacking because you're only going 244 now". That will work fine with your "dumb" trainer you bought in step one.

4. Next after that are "smart" trainers that will vary the resistance automatically so you will have no choice but to pedal at 257 watts when whatever program you are using tells you to and, they have built in real power meters so you are not using virtual power but getting "real" numbers. This gets you into things like a Computrainer or a Kickr instead of a basic "dumb" trainer from level 1. This level trainer also gets you some dedicated programs maybe the ability to get files for real world courses and a bunch of other toys.

Personally, I think everyone should get to level 3. Its cheap and makes a world of difference both in terms of the quality of the training you get and in making trainer time much more tolerable as it reduces the boredom greatly. The move from 3 to 4 is a huge investment (at least $500 and up) and while it is cool, it is in the optional rather than absolute necessity realm.

I guess the 4 levels is the right answer ;-)

lol! I swear, Professor, I wasn't looking at STP's paper! ;)

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Ha, thanks guys this is great. Very helpful.

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Has anyone used both Golden Cheetah and TrainerRoad and can compare the features. I haven't used TrainerRoad, but it seems that GC has all the same features for free but is less user friendly. From what I can tell it is like the comparison between GC and WKO except without the fights between who has the better models.

I briefly played around with GC a couple years ago, but as you mention, found it just a bit overwhelming at the time. I haven't seen it recently, so it's not fair for me to really comment on it. I should probably play around with it again sometime soon.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

You have already received allot of great advice. I will say that GC will do what TR does but TR is worth the money in my opinion for the user-friendly and structured plans. As far as trainers. KK is the best fluid trainer out there and is a great route to go. There are some smart trainers getting down near the KK in price - Kickr Snap & Bushido that you need to seriously look at if your going to drop the money on a KK. While they are still a few hundred more the gap is getting closer and the capability of the smart trainer is so much greater. It has built in power meter and allows you to do ERG workouts, Sim workouts, or typical fluild type/Slope mode work.

I did a fluid trainer with a PM on Zwift and trainer road for over a year. It was great but my kickr is so much better. On TR there is no trying to match the line. The trainer forces you to do the work. On Zwift with the sim mode you get the realistic adjustment for terrain. There are also many other softwares you can buy that will do SIM mode based on courses and videos. Cyclops virtual training and Tour de giro are both software I have used and are both great options as well.

If you really want to go budget and bang for the buck try to find a used KK or Cyclops fluid trainer. Then save your money for a power meter. But if you are most interested in video type training with adjusting trainer for virtual terrain then you need to look at the smart trainers.

I think this is spot on, with one exception. Take your current #4 and bump it to #5, then make #4 virtual social riding software (like Zwift). It really is the next level, after following your progression exactly, I have now reached the Zwift stage and it is awesome. I really don't see myself ever going back to the structured indoor workout software (like trainer road) again. Maybe in the dead of winter when I shouldn't be racing people, but probably not. The only "next step" I might take would be to add a smart trainer, but with my Powertap feeding me real power data that I can take on the road with me, I doubt I'll invest much money in power measurement that has to stay home when I go out.

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Powertap / Cycleops / Saris

A guy I coach dropped off a NIB KK Road Machine last night. I'm going to start out by trying this out and later determine if I need to upgrade or if it will suffice.

I want to try out some of the suggest software, particularly Zwift.

So to do this, can I use my current Cateye double wireless strada speed/cadence sensor? I have no idea if it is ANT+ but I'm assuming it's probably not and if that's the case what should I buy?

Can I stream to my iPad 2? My Macbook Pro (circa 2009 but with current OS)?

What do I need to get going?

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Your Cateye sensors, unfortunately, won't work. They are not ANT+ or Bluetooth.

You need the following:
1. Bike sensors - at least speed, but cadence, and a HRM add to it. ANT+ or Bluetooth.
2. A receiver.

I have not personally used Bluetooth, so I only know what works well for ANT+. For the bike sensors, I've had good luck with the Garmin GSC-10 or the newer ones (which are a much nicer install):
http://www.amazon.com/...garmin+speed+cadence


Optionally, you can get an ANT+ heart rate monitor like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/...n+heart+rate+monitor


For the ANT+ receiver, the newer Garmin units are nice because they are super tiny and don't stick out of the computer far:
http://www.amazon.com/...min+ant%2B+usb+stick

Once you have these parts, you can now make the connection - when you pedal on your trainer, the speed sensor gets picked up by the ANT+ receiver and then Zwift/TrainerRoad/Maximum Trainer/PerfPRO Studio/etc., will take that speed, math it all up with the slope of your trainer (which you specify during setup), and calculate your power. The cadence and heart rate are nice bits of additional data.

I hope that helps! Good luck with your new addiction! ;)

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

As above, just buy then download the Sufferfest videos.

You can do it dead simple, with a trainer and a computer/TV, or you get can get all fancy by having it work with a Kickr or Trainerroad.

In either case, they're awesome motivation and will truly beat the heck out of you when you need it. Can't go wrong with them.

I'm heading out to buy a new Garmin 520 and a speed/cadence sensor.

With that, the KK Road Machine and my Macbook, will I have all I need for Zwift? Do I need an Ant+ dongle thing? My LBS guy said he didn't think so, and that the Garmin should transmit via bluetooth but he'd never done it.

Just want to make sure I get everything I need to get going.

Also, I am going to get some Sufferfest videos. Hearing great reviews from some guys I ride with.

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

The Garmins use ANT+ rather than bluetooth. You'll have to get the ANT+ dongle.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Even though it has Bluetooth Smart in it? (can connect with iphone at least)

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Golden Cheetah is great and doesn't cost $10 a month. I get why the software companies love subscription plans, but as a consumer, no thanks.

The 520 may be able to transmit via Bluetooth, but it is not needed for the trainer setup. Your speed and cadence sensors are transmitters that will communicate directly to the ANT+ stick rather than to the 520 while using TrainerRoad, Zwift, etc. The 520 and your computer with the ANT+ stick are both ANT+ receivers receiving data via ANT+ from the speed and cadence sensors. You could have the 520 receiving data at the same time as your computer with an ANT+ stick, but the 520 and computer would not care that the other is even present.

I hope that helps! Nothing like making this stuff easy, eh?

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador