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Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/sports/olympics/ioc-russia-winter-olympics.html


Will this finally start to push elite athletes from doping or will they just get more sophisticated at cheating?

https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
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Just saw that....WOW!
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
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WJW.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like they were manually manipulating the samples.

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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
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Watch the Netflix documentary Icarus if you want to see what Russia did at the Sochi Olympics. Personally disappointed they didn't outright ban the whole team.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [wmcc] [ In reply to ]
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i was both intrigued and frustrated by icarus - an interesting and kind of flawed documentary.

one obvious takeaway is that if russia is doing it. . . i mean, who else is? they don't have access to unique resources or technology, that's for sure.

anyway, the ban is going to be interesting from a political point of view - will there be blowback at the world cup? or subsequent games? and what about the fairness of banning russian athletes who train abroad and have been actively participating in other countries' testing pools? and how will things like the new EU data security laws play out in terms of whereabouts testing or sharing biological passports?

beyond the basic biochemistry it's a legal and ethical quagmire. . .

-mike

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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
what about the fairness of banning russian athletes who train abroad and have been actively participating in other countries' testing pools?


Did you read the article, particularly paragraphs 2 and 7?

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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Clean Russian athletes can still compete under an Olympic team flag. They have to essentially apply and be approved by IOC to compete. The title is a little misleading since Russia the country is banned but Russian athletes can compete. Not a slight against OP on the title.

Sort of like in current events. Frank Day is banned but Dave can post here for him.
Last edited by: Leddy: Dec 5, 17 12:33
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:

Sort of like in current events. Frank Day is banned but Dave can post here for him.

Well played, sir!
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
they don't have access to unique resources or technology, that's for sure.

I'd argue that at Sochi - which most of the evidence is based on - they definitely had unique resources (insider lab access) and possibly unique technology (defeating "tamper proof" vials)
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
Clean Russian athletes can still compete under an Olympic team flag. They have to essentially apply and be approved by IOC to compete. The title is a little misleading since Russia the country is banned but Russian athletes can compete. Not a slight against OP on the title.

Sort of like in current events. Frank Day is banned but Dave can post here for him.

*Clap*

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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:

I'd argue that at Sochi - which most of the evidence is based on - they definitely had unique resources (insider lab access) and possibly unique technology (defeating "tamper proof" vials)

That highlights the difference between an individual doping and systematic doping. If WADA works as advertised, an individual is trying to slip through the cracks and time doping to balance performance benefits with risk of getting caught. With the help of doctors, management and perhaps even testers, an athlete can dope unimpeded for maximum performance.

Penalize institutions the same way individuals are punished and doping will be a lot less effective.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
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It won't change a thing. "Clean" is a fairy tale.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Individuals only it seems, no teams.

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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
i was both intrigued and frustrated by icarus - an interesting and kind of flawed documentary.

one obvious takeaway is that if russia is doing it. . . i mean, who else is? they don't have access to unique resources or technology, that's for sure.

anyway, the ban is going to be interesting from a political point of view - will there be blowback at the world cup? or subsequent games? and what about the fairness of banning russian athletes who train abroad and have been actively participating in other countries' testing pools? and how will things like the new EU data security laws play out in terms of whereabouts testing or sharing biological passports?

beyond the basic biochemistry it's a legal and ethical quagmire. . .

-mike


What Don Catlin said at the beginning?: They all dope...

Apparently Don Catlin. is the one that created first anti doping lab in US..., and when asked how many times he tested Lance he said: 50 or more, but he never cut him.
Then he was asked: So if you never cut him maybe he didn't dope. And he goes: 'They all dope"

WTF I say...

I would fire his ass in no time if he is convinced everyone dopes, but he can't prove it, he is not the man for the job, or he is doing the same swaps as Rodchenkov.

It is sad movie.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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realAB wrote:
Individuals only it seems, no teams.

I think you are right. One of the original articles I read mentioned a "Olympic athletes from Russian team" or "Russian Olympic flag' something along those lines. Looks like that has been backed off to simply Olympic athletes from Russia and the Olympic flag would be hoisted if they place.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
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Tip of the iceburg. If you dug deep enough it would be tough to find any clean athletes at the top. Any sport. Any Country.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [bretzky] [ In reply to ]
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bretzky wrote:
Tip of the iceburg. If you dug deep enough it would be tough to find any clean athletes at the top. Any sport. Any Country.

Probably correct. I think Russia’s crime in the IOC’s eyes is the centralized management of the doping. As long as individuals dope on their own, when they are caught the IOC can portray them as bad apples, shun them and keep the gravy train otherwise running. With centralized management of the doping, a single individual (Rodchenkov in this case) can out the whole thing, creating a real issue for the IOC. They are trying to establish a plausible appearance of clean sport which they can do when popping a couple of people here and there but which they cannot do with detailed evidence of doping at the national level.
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Re: Russia Banned From 2018 Winter Olympics [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's a mistake to exclude them from the Olympics. It's too bad that sport has become political.

What Russia did isn't right but instead of excluding them they should just test the shxt out of their athletes for the 2 years prior to the games. Anyone not in the testing pool doesn't get to go, anyone that fails a test gets banned.

They'll either be cleaner or get better at beating the tests.
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