eliminate overstriders

They probably should have said “most elite runners” or “most good runners”. Well, duh, they run fast because their bodies are made to run fast. I always had people tease me good-naturedly about my little choppy stride. In the past I have timed myself just out of interest and I always end up right about 90 or 180 depending on how you count.

I start out runs at this pace, which can be pretty slow in the beginning; however as I warm up, especially towards the end of the run the same stride rate ends up moving me along the ground much faster.

I tested again at a higher speed and found that I was at 100/200 when running at 12 mph.



If you have been overstriding your whole life then it will be really hard to change that overnight, like any other long-ingrained habit. Research seems to show that it might be worth sticking with it.



If you read long enough on this forum, you will be pretty sure to read conflicting advice on every subject ever discussed.



Chad

How many miles a week do you run? I think for someone to "find their stride" they need to be running a fair amount of miles consistently otherwise that muscle memory isn't being imprinted. I always feel smoother after a couple of days running in a row then I do on my first day after a rest. As for your turnover have you tried strides after your run? Just focus on good form during your normal run then do 4-8 100m strides after the run is over at a controlled sprint pace to focus on turning the legs over fast, make sure you are in control and relaxed but get your turnover up there.

How tall are you? 80 cycles/minute is a real low stride frequency, you should aim for close to 90.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

cdw wrote: If you read long enough on this forum, you will be pretty sure to read conflicting advice on every subject ever discussed.

Don't believe this. He is wrong. B-)

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

cdw just forgot to mention to trust only what desert dude and smartasscoach write... ,-)

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

and me? vai te foder palhaco!

This is not the worst advice you can find here, that's for certain.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Ahhh, but to confirm my previous statement, I have a real-life story for you. For over a year I had been reading desert dude’s advice that “There is no such thing as junk” miles. He was not the first person to tell me that and I had been churning out pretty high volume for the better part of six months. When I finally wrote him to ask some specific advice for Duathalon nationals this year, he told me, “You don’t need to be doing that kind of volume.” Exactly the opposite of his earlier preaching. J



Chad

I have often wondered this myself. My only observation is that after 2 months of working on my stride, my natural stride is still to overstride, but I am much faster ("fast" being relative 'cause I truly suck at running) and exert a lot less effort when I increase my cadence. But it took me about 6 weeks to be able to feel a difference, and I am injury-free for the first time in a long time.

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Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

RVSGAKC (SAC is easier), mine is about 80 also. How do I increase it?

Thanks,

Cam

It's a just do it kind of thing. Just do whatever it takes to get that frequency up. If you just think of that, the body will adjust things.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

slightly off topic but I've noticed that doing spinning classes through the winter helped my leg turnover and made my stride better.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

cdw, THE best advice for getting faster in endurance sports is to do whatever makes your MP20 go up. Maximum Power for 20 minutes. The higher your MP20, the faster you can maintain any lower level of power output. To borrow from a stock market analogy: Higher MP20 raises all boats (with the possible exception of VO2Max).

In order to do this, you will have to change up your training stimulus...sometimes longer, slower training, sometimes faster, shorter training. Sometimes intervals, sometimes rest. So, DD's advice could be appropriate depending upon your body's needed stimulus/rest phase. I don't have the time to do the REALLY long slow kind of training, but, those that do report good results.

I almost always stick with intervals of some sort, unless it's a workout greater than 2 hours (not common for me). Even then, I always throw an interval or two in the workout. It serves ME fairly well. I train less than anyone I know that can often place in their Age Group...mind you, that's not necessarily a good performance compared to Nationals or Elite, or even good compared to my potential. The only way I'd know for sure is to change the training style and see what it did for me.

Last year was the first time I tried to go long and slow in preparation for my first Ironman. I lost fitness during that time (as defined by my MP20), but, I gained confidence that I could finish the race in good shape and I got much needed nutrition practice for completing a long race. I also got burned out and didn't enjoy training much. Now, I'm back to my much shorter, much harder workouts, and I'm getting back to a decent MP20 in very short order.

DD and SAC give good advice. You just have to understand how it relates to your training stimulus program today, and your goals for tomorrow.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Titan,

I'm sorry, but it was a little bit of an inside joke. I followed his advice, reduced my volume and peaked for nationals with good results. It was just funny for both of us when he said it.

When I finally had time to do more high volume training I became faster at everthing from sprint to half-IM distance with very little interval training. Four or five weeks of limited high intensity training was enough to tune me up for Duathlon nationals.

Chad

it was a little bit of an inside joke



Sorry, I've been outside for quite a while!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Most "runners" don't run enough to become efficient runners.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Follow up question:

Is a treadmill an acceptable place to work on improving running efficiency or should most of this be done outdoors?

"How tall are you?"

I am 6'3" I barely hit 80/min. Now the crazy thing is that I can knock out a 6 beat swim kick (not that that is of any use in an IM swim) no issues and my "natural bike cadence is 93.

I have been running 25 to 45 miles a week for most of the last 6 years. 3 marathons (4:10, 4:30 and 5:17(this is where I learned all about the need for salt) and lots of halfs at around 1:5x.

I train about 8 hours per week (sometimes less, rarely more). In 2004, in seven sprint triathlons and duathlons I either finished top 10 overall, won my age group, or won Masters (I'm 47) (or got DQed, but that's another story). Pretty much the same this year (1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, DNF). Almost every workout I do is a quality session: pool intervals at better than race pace with minimal rest, L4-L5 bike workouts (last night was 28 miles solo at ~22mph), fast tempo runs or fast brick runs. I don't have time for LSD. I did my version of reverse periodisation this year, and started upping bike/run distances in the spring as prep for a June half IM.

I'll note that one of the fastest triathletes in my area (much faster than me) achieved a lot of success with minimal speed work. He is now finding that with a reduced training schedule, his times are suffering.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

The treadmill is a great place to work on your efficiency. A constant terrain will probably help.

Focus on being as quiet on the belt as possible....small strides and no bounce.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Ken wrote: Almost every workout I do is a quality session: pool intervals at better than race pace with minimal rest, L4-L5 bike workouts (last night was 28 miles solo at ~22mph), fast tempo runs or fast brick runs. I don't have time for LSD.

Even athletes I don't know train and perform successfully with hard workouts! I can't say it's for everyone, but, I think there may be a significant number of people that have become slaves to their HR monitor and/or LSD-type training. I believe LSD-type training is fine, MAYBE even better than hard training...but, only if you have the time. Most of us don't have the time, so, we do better by training hard the hours that we carve out to train.

If you are tired of and bored with truckloads of LSD stuff, rest up a couple of weeks, then come to the dark side and see if your race times improve. You might be pleasantly surprised. Maybe none of us can do as well as Ken, but, if you improve and enjoy this type of training more than LSD, it's a good move.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

For taller people it is harder to get to 90, so I wouldn't push you to that number... maybe 88 ;-)

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com