I'd be interested to know more.

Sadly, with a $200 evaluation fee, and then $8000 for the procedure (not counting two separate trips to CO), and not being covered by insurance, it's way out of my price league.

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Hi,

A quick database search on Pubmed (US library of medicine database) gives no mention of Regenexx. To me this means that the proceedure has not been evaluated by research studies.

They may have research published under another name, or in different places (website?) but I would like some 3rd party outcome studies (short term and long term) showing the benefits.

These statements should be quantified by the company:
"has been used for years on horses and dogs with great success"
"They tout a 68 year old surgeon who qualified and finished Kona '08 after this treatment"

It may be a very expensive trial treatment?

The statements are mine. The 68 year old and links to his treatment and his Kona finish are on the regenexx site. The horses and dogs statement comes from other articles on this procedure that I have found over the last year.

They have several self-published studies on their site. I am not qualified to evaluate them.

I've been following people's progress who have had this procedure done at http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/...index.php?board=29.0 Seems that they have had good success with this procedure and the 68 year old who finished Kona is Dr Joe Maroon Neuro Surgeon to the Pittsburg Steelers.

Know nothing about this - but this is the future. Articular cartilage can not be regrown by our own bodies (unlike fibrocartilage, muscle, tendon, bone, etc. that can heal). Stem cell transplantation has been successfully done in animal models for years, but use in humans is tough for a variety of reasons (cost, political, social, etc.)

As for using your "own" stem cells ... I think not and a little more understanding may be needed by you (or possibly me).

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Thanks.

By "own" stem cells I mean they harvest them from your own bone marrow, multiply them through growth in a lab and re-inject them. It is called an autologous mesenchymal stem cell transplant.

Could this possibly work for joint damage caused by rheumatoid arthritis (assuming the disease is well managed)?

Sure, for the damaged cartilage I would think - but since RA is an autoimmune disease, I suppose you would just "attack" the joint again. I assume you (or whoever) is also on immunomodulating drugs for RA as well (Embrel, methotrexate, etc.)

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Cool - didn't know they could differentiate into hyaline cartilage cells. I think that has been used for vascular issues for some time?

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Orencia. Probably would just get inflamed again, oh well. Maybe in 10 years when they have a better artificial knee I will go that route. For now, I will just keep turning the pedals.

Yes. Apparently they can now make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I have an interest in this treatment as I have a damaged left knee that I had a successful microfracture procedure on. The acid test for me is how well did the return to running go. Dr. Maroon's run split in Kona was 6:19:49. I ran 3:34:48 (it got a little ugly for me). I'm 46. I'd like to see a case where someone with the treatment has returned to a high level of running.

Inject it where, in the joint? What would make the cells "stick"? I'd be all over this if it works!! I'd be able to ride again. Priceless.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

I'm not sure if this is the same or not, but this procedure sounds very similar to the latest treatment for the effects of Multiple Meyloma which presents as advanced ostioperosis. the stem cells are your own and I have no other real deatails, but I know that 'they' are using stemcells to regrow bones etc.

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

is this technique more durable than, say, ACI ? Is it really all that different, except they are harvesting bone marrow cells as opposed to cartilige ones?

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Yes I'm 46 as well. I would love to return to running, although not necessarily IM or marathons. Even if I can't run again, what I'm doing now is pain managment and there's something to be said for simply being able to live without chronic pain. Running would be the bonus.

I am going to get an evaluation from these guys and I will post again as I hear more.

Yes they inject in close proximity to the site, guided by live xray.

Tons of info on their website on the process and how it "sticks."

"Stem cell transplantation has been successfully done in animal models for years, but use in humans is tough for a variety of reasons (cost, political, social, etc.)"

I hope your "etc." includes the only relevant reason:
Lack of SCIENCE.
The science is not there, since there are multiple unresolved issues with stem cell transplants of any kind.
It has been shown over and over again that the results of animal studies are not completetly transferable to humans. Especially if it comes to long term prognosis.

These therapies are UNSAFE and DANGEROUS at the current state of research and science.

If one wants to believe the anectodal evidence and wants to be another test rabbit..... oh well.
Hope they are willing to take the risks of an inflammation completely eating the joint or if they develop cancer (no scientific babbel required to make this clear).
I think the Gov. should really step in and regulate stem cell gene therapy ASAP, since right now this seems to be the field where all the greedy unethical and unqualified MDs seem to pool.

One last pointer:
If one really wants to have the procedure done: China
They offer the exactly same procedure for a fraction of the cost (including airfare).
And the quality of the procedure is the same (it really is not complicated).

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

I always appreciate a well informed and well reasoned response. Thanks.

In case of you being sarcastic:

I have the creds to look at the science and am qualified to comment on it (I am actually working in the stem cell research field).
I am also suffering from an inheritable form of RA. I know the patient side of it (although I am not that affected and desperate---yet).
I am very well aware that patients get desperate and look for every option available to them.
Especially athletes and active people.

So yeah:

For now I would stay away from it. Even if I got the procedure (and follow-up care) for free.

Maybe in 10 years....

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

Why would I be sarcastic?

I have an abrasive and impulsive writing style and the english language is not my native tongue.
Heck, going back over my posts I myself sometimes have a hard time believing that what I posted here was for real ;-)

On whatever you decide:
Educate yourself by mining independent resources (and don't take advice from the surgeons website or an internet bulletin board).

Good luck!

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

Allow me to mention what I know and have heard about a similar treatment for dogs and horses by Vet-Stem. Obviously, this really has nothing to do with treatment on humans, but it may be of interest nonetheless.

My brother's 9 year-old Labrador suffered from osteoarthritis. She was pretty healthy (e.g. heart, lungs, etc.), although she had gotten obese and was insulin-dependent diabetic. She was given one set of stem-cell injections in early 2008. It didn't do anything for her. They had enough stem cells remaining to try again, and did so in early June. It went bad. She had a bad reaction to it, and basically lost the use of her back legs for a month or two. In that time, she developed pneumonia due in part to inactivity. She became somewhat mobile after that, but passed away from natural causes on Halloween morning.

She was one of ten dogs given this treatment by a veterinarian in St. Louis. He said that she was the only one who showed no benefit from the treatment. I guess it's like a lot of medical procedures--there are no guarantees it will work. We had heard of some great success stories, which is why we gave it a shot. The treatment cost $2,700.

If I were suffering knee pain and a stem-cell injection was a promising option, I think I'd do it.

Jim

Thanks. I came here looking for info, preferably first-hand info from people who have had the treatment. When something looks too good to be true, it often is. I will continue my fact fainding and I appreciate your input. I take you at your word that you have some knowledge in this field, even if you have a slight "frothing at the mouth" tone which detracts from your statements. At least you are passionate!