i saw both these bikes today up at RA. I like them both, but the Look, looks amazing.
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Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [Du2Tri]
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Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [sneakerchimp]
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I think the Ridley-Dean trumps them both for "curb appeal"...
Lar Dog
Lar Dog
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [Lar Dog]
[ In reply to ]
Lar Dog
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [Lar Dog]
[ In reply to ]
Tom D, wich bike are you going to ride next year?
Formely stef32
Formely stef32
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [Lar Dog]
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Thats a nice looking bike.
But one of the best things about the 596 is the elastomer in the seat post. If you've never ridden a road or TT bike with suspension, you really are missing something. The ride of the Zipp 2001 is super smooth. Its like riding a dream. The 596 I'm sure will ride a bit more stiff without a beam, but the elastomer will improve the ride over a regular bike.
Once my wife saw that the 596 had an elastomer in the seat post, she said I could have one : )
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Paul
But one of the best things about the 596 is the elastomer in the seat post. If you've never ridden a road or TT bike with suspension, you really are missing something. The ride of the Zipp 2001 is super smooth. Its like riding a dream. The 596 I'm sure will ride a bit more stiff without a beam, but the elastomer will improve the ride over a regular bike.
Once my wife saw that the 596 had an elastomer in the seat post, she said I could have one : )
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Paul
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [zipp]
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Never heard of the elastomer...can you provide a few more details? Is Look the only one who uses this?
Lar Dog
Lar Dog
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [jonnyo]
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"So really, if someone as a problem with hydratation on a p4 during a ironman, i would recommend him to get a good coach and learn the art of nutrition during a ironman.
look at many of the pro racing with one bottle only....they are a good exemple of how to do it...... "
I can think of at least one hugely successful female pro who is routinely photographed at IM races with 3 water bottles plus an aerodrink on a P3/P3C. I doubt seriously that she needs additional coaching on IM nutrition. There are plenty of examples of pros who use more than 1 water bottle to race that distance and it would be interesting to hear how they feel about a bike with no place to attach a water bottle cage. A fair number of St'ers have voiced a negative opinion about that feature of the P4 and it could very well be a reason for looking at other bike options (maybe the P3). One water bottle is not for everyone...
look at many of the pro racing with one bottle only....they are a good exemple of how to do it...... "
I can think of at least one hugely successful female pro who is routinely photographed at IM races with 3 water bottles plus an aerodrink on a P3/P3C. I doubt seriously that she needs additional coaching on IM nutrition. There are plenty of examples of pros who use more than 1 water bottle to race that distance and it would be interesting to hear how they feel about a bike with no place to attach a water bottle cage. A fair number of St'ers have voiced a negative opinion about that feature of the P4 and it could very well be a reason for looking at other bike options (maybe the P3). One water bottle is not for everyone...
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [Lar Dog]
[ In reply to ]
As far as I know Look is the first to place an elastomer in the seat post of a TT/road bike. The 596 is the only Look frame to have the elastomer. 3 elastomers come with each frame, soft, medium and hard, each a different color. I'll be testing each one to see if they provide a difference in the ride.
I can't lie, the elastomer is one the biggest reasons I bought the 596 (and my wife says so). I've ridden alot of different bikes over the past 18 years. Suspension rules! Whether its an elastomer or whatever. I just can't get into a stiff seat post up my butt for hours on end. They really do make a huge difference with road shock.
My wife would never let me buy a Cervelo P3, I never wanted one anyway, since the seat post is STRAIGHT up. It just looks like it hurts!! : ) That totally rules out a P4, too!
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Paul
I can't lie, the elastomer is one the biggest reasons I bought the 596 (and my wife says so). I've ridden alot of different bikes over the past 18 years. Suspension rules! Whether its an elastomer or whatever. I just can't get into a stiff seat post up my butt for hours on end. They really do make a huge difference with road shock.
My wife would never let me buy a Cervelo P3, I never wanted one anyway, since the seat post is STRAIGHT up. It just looks like it hurts!! : ) That totally rules out a P4, too!
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Paul
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [cincytri]
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I never said you cant be succesfull with 4 bottles on your bike. You can, but you arent maximizing your aerodynamic. For someone like stadler, even if he isnt riding the most aero bike, he will still be ahead of most because he is so strong. For someone not as strong that is struggling to make the front group.... to take attention of all the details might make the difference.
Now, the p4 can be riden with 4 bottles easy. The aero bottle on the down tube, 2 bottle behind the seat and one between the aerobar. That is for anyone that want a p4 with tons of bottles.
Now, for those that want every chance on there side. There is way to learn to have a effective hydratation/fuel plan with only 1 or 2 bottle on the bike. The p4 come as extremly handy as you can use the aero bottle on the frame and a normal bottle between your arms on the aerobars and you have the fastest set up available on the market... you put all your chance on your side to get the most out of your output...
not sure how is your succesfull pro women but perhaps...she could be even more succesfull by looking at those details...
Tons of pro have such big engin...it dosnt matter what they do...they are going to go fast. But if your FTP isnt 400 watts, but you still want to keep up with the others, to be wiser than them and look at details might payoff..
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Now, the p4 can be riden with 4 bottles easy. The aero bottle on the down tube, 2 bottle behind the seat and one between the aerobar. That is for anyone that want a p4 with tons of bottles.
Now, for those that want every chance on there side. There is way to learn to have a effective hydratation/fuel plan with only 1 or 2 bottle on the bike. The p4 come as extremly handy as you can use the aero bottle on the frame and a normal bottle between your arms on the aerobars and you have the fastest set up available on the market... you put all your chance on your side to get the most out of your output...
not sure how is your succesfull pro women but perhaps...she could be even more succesfull by looking at those details...
Tons of pro have such big engin...it dosnt matter what they do...they are going to go fast. But if your FTP isnt 400 watts, but you still want to keep up with the others, to be wiser than them and look at details might payoff..
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [jonnyo]
[ In reply to ]
I totally get why someone would want the P4. Assuming its the fastest bike, then why not ride it the way its supposed to be ridden and get the maximum benefits? I also understand that some people can and do get by with 1-2 bottles with no issues at all. It works for you and others, so no argument there. I just wonder about the supposition that some of the most successful triathletes are winning "in spite of themselves." Perhaps their plans and methods translate to certain equipment choices that sortof buck the aero assumptions? Its very hard to argue with success. All I'm saying is that the P4 presents certain challenges that may not be worth it in the end for many athletes for a variety of reasons- including pros and elites. It will be interesting to see how everyone does it...
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [sneakerchimp]
[ In reply to ]
I was flipping through one of the Tri magazines and my girlfriend who could care less about bikes saw the Look. She said, "Wow, that is a hot bike. Why don't you get one of those." I just smiled.
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [jonnyo]
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I see how the aerodynamic benefit could be a few minutes in an Ironman, but you also have to consider the time and energy lost every 10-20 miles when you slow to grab a bottle and accelerate up to pace. See how much time you save when competitors around you are slowing to grab bottles and you stay left and skip the aid station. You will gain some distance. It adds ups and i am not an expert at all on aerodynamics or this and that, but i am guessing that you would actually be faster with 3 bottles on bike and less visits to the aid station even if you are a very good technical rider, you still have to slow. what do you think??
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [TDOG]
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you bring some good points.....and important to think about it. Now, to be honest, in the pro race, we dont slow down for bottles,(often we are lucky and have the volonteer spint with bottles for the first few riders...) when i look next to me, i see very experimented rider and they know how to grad a bottle quickly and you often dont even have to get out of aero position to do so. But you still bring a good point, everyone as to figure out what work best for them....
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [jonnyo]
[ In reply to ]
Jonnyo,
Ok, so maybe you can get by in a race -- barely. How would you do long training rides on the bike without aid stations every 10 miles? If you can't train on this bike why race on it?
Also, is it really ideal to slow down for each and every aid station? I blow through as many as possible, especially the first few. If I don't need the aid, I'm not slowing down.
I think it's kind of crazy to have your whole race depend on the aid stations. Some of those volunteers don't know how to hand up a bottle. I use aid stations for probably 1/2 the IM. Once you do get a bottle, with this bike you refill the small 20 oz custom bottle on the bottom bracket -- what a waste of time and energy. Bottle Exchange? Not with the custom bottle. Also, how can you refill this thing if you are pedaling, the bottle is right in the center of all the action. The whole tiny bottle thing way down on the bb doesn't work for me -- the tool kit is a better idea.
I have not seen any pros race with 1 bottle, name me some pros who race IM with one bottle and I'll look at their setup.
I've tried the mega calories in one bottle -- bad idea -- too easy to get the osmolity all mixed up and end up with a bad gut ache. I've done 3 IMs and don't think I need a coach to figure out hydration, this bike just doesn't look like it would work for me.
I guess to each their own. It will be interesting to see how many pros use this bike for IM racing.. I think Demerly summed it up best when he said this bike was designed around the water bottle.
Ok, so maybe you can get by in a race -- barely. How would you do long training rides on the bike without aid stations every 10 miles? If you can't train on this bike why race on it?
Also, is it really ideal to slow down for each and every aid station? I blow through as many as possible, especially the first few. If I don't need the aid, I'm not slowing down.
I think it's kind of crazy to have your whole race depend on the aid stations. Some of those volunteers don't know how to hand up a bottle. I use aid stations for probably 1/2 the IM. Once you do get a bottle, with this bike you refill the small 20 oz custom bottle on the bottom bracket -- what a waste of time and energy. Bottle Exchange? Not with the custom bottle. Also, how can you refill this thing if you are pedaling, the bottle is right in the center of all the action. The whole tiny bottle thing way down on the bb doesn't work for me -- the tool kit is a better idea.
I have not seen any pros race with 1 bottle, name me some pros who race IM with one bottle and I'll look at their setup.
I've tried the mega calories in one bottle -- bad idea -- too easy to get the osmolity all mixed up and end up with a bad gut ache. I've done 3 IMs and don't think I need a coach to figure out hydration, this bike just doesn't look like it would work for me.
I guess to each their own. It will be interesting to see how many pros use this bike for IM racing.. I think Demerly summed it up best when he said this bike was designed around the water bottle.
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [Tom Demerly]
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Tom, can you confirm that the Look 596 comes with pedals that allow for crank arm length adjustment? Also, it is interesting that Look appears to be going the opposite direction from Cervelo/Felt, etc. in terms of rear wheel aerodynamics -- rear wheel further from the frame versus close as possible.
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [bigred3]
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I use 1 bottle of Perpertuem made up for the duration of any training ride or event I do over 2 hours. So the mix maybe for a duration anywhere between 3 and 6 hours. In training I use a Camelbak to carry water, refilling if necessary. During events, I use on course water, collecting, and discarding 1 bottle every aid station.
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [bigred3]
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If you and Tom don't mind. Yes, the Look 596 comes with proprietary special Look Keo Zed pedals. Depending on how you mount the pedal the crank length is adjustable at 170, 172.5 and 175mm in length. Its a strange looking threaded hole in the crank arm that apparently allows the axle to be turned to adjust the length.
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Paul
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Paul
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [zipp]
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Regarding the Elastomer
Actually the 596 is not the only bike to come with the elastomer. The 576 used the same system on the tri side, and the 595 and 586 on the road side all use the same system. The 596 one looks different but it is just a fairing around the normal Epost system.
The 595 has been out since the 2007 model year, and the Epost works great!
Paul,
You are going to love the Epost system. As you may remember, I also own a Zipp 2001, we talked a couple of times when I first got the bike. I have been riding a 595 with the Epost since late 2006, and it is in a lot of ways better than the Zipp beam. The beam has more "travel", but it moves more than just up and down. Not a ton, but there is some side to side flex. With the Epost, you get close to the same amount of "travel", but no side to side movement.
You are going to love your new bike, I am getting one as well, though I like the black and red.
Scott
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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry
Actually the 596 is not the only bike to come with the elastomer. The 576 used the same system on the tri side, and the 595 and 586 on the road side all use the same system. The 596 one looks different but it is just a fairing around the normal Epost system.
The 595 has been out since the 2007 model year, and the Epost works great!
Paul,
You are going to love the Epost system. As you may remember, I also own a Zipp 2001, we talked a couple of times when I first got the bike. I have been riding a 595 with the Epost since late 2006, and it is in a lot of ways better than the Zipp beam. The beam has more "travel", but it moves more than just up and down. Not a ton, but there is some side to side flex. With the Epost, you get close to the same amount of "travel", but no side to side movement.
You are going to love your new bike, I am getting one as well, though I like the black and red.
Scott
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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [bikescott]
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Thanks for the info. Now I'm "really" looking forward to riding the 596.
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Paul
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Paul
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [bikescott]
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What about Specialized Zertz inserts? I believe these were introduced on the 2005 Roubaix line and at some point were added to the previous generation Transition line.
My 2005 Roubaix has Zertz elastomeric inserts in the fork seatpost and seat stays. I distinctly recall seeing the inserts in the seatpost and fork of a previous generation Transition. The technology may have been applied to other Specialized lines, including the Tarmac.
peter
My 2005 Roubaix has Zertz elastomeric inserts in the fork seatpost and seat stays. I distinctly recall seeing the inserts in the seatpost and fork of a previous generation Transition. The technology may have been applied to other Specialized lines, including the Tarmac.
peter
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [TCECoaching]
[ In reply to ]
I have tried Perpeteum -- when I referred to the gut ache, it was from that stuff. I can't stand it in the heat -- yuck, it does ok for me in cooler weather. How do you get the osmality right? I tried the multi hour bottle but I always ended up drinking too much of the mix/paste and not enough water or vice versa. I now use 3 bottles of Infinit on the bike ~200 cals each that usually lasts me until 70 miles or so then add 2-3 bottles of gatorade and/or water and a few gels from the aid stations, usually 5-6 bottles total for IM depending on t's. The Infinit takes all the guesswork out of the osmality and allows me to just focus on the race.
Camelback sounds like the best option for this bike, but if you don't use it for racing you are violating the whole rule of "train how you race".
Camelback sounds like the best option for this bike, but if you don't use it for racing you are violating the whole rule of "train how you race".
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [bigred3]
[ In reply to ]
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [fatbastardtris]
[ In reply to ]
Marry her now!
Re: Photo Shoot: Cervelo P4 and Look 596. [Tom Demerly]
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That's not a fair comparison since both bikes are setup up differently. Cervelo better hire some graphics dept. otherwise they will lose significant market share over the coming years.
�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo
MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.
�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo
MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.
I love this bike.
The best pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die.-Pre
The best pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die.-Pre