I just picked up a IM1 a few weeks back at a good price to use for '07, so I'm definitely not against C'dales.

However, here's a couple of somethings to consider with the Six13.

First, read Slowman's review of the Six13. It makes the case, if I'm not mistaken, that the bike is optimal when riden at 74 degrees. So you if you want to ride a bit more steeply it might not be the optimal design.

Second, I have a few friends that are C'dale fanatics. They advised me to go IM1 over Six13 anyway. According to them, a number of elite cyclists (Pro-1-2) complained of too much flex in the Six13 design. It seems this was the impetus for the System 6 design with the full carbon front triangle and oversized head tube. This is the route C'dale is going. I think the Six13 design might be short lived and will likely be replaced in the next year or two with a System 6 style frame.

In all? You've probably love either bike. But I think Scott is a little more targeted to and in tune with the TRI market right now. C'dale is a bit out of step at the moment. All else being equal on price and fit (of course, of course)...I'd go with the Scott.

I dig my six13. No problem with flex for me. As a former roadie I do not ride extremely steep. Mine weighed 17.5 out of the box (no pedals) and I have the SRM. I have no complaints.

One of the previouse poster had a good point about how steep you will ride it. I have a plasma with an arione saddle (the longest saddle I can find), to get me to ~80*. The tallish head tube on it requires me to run an ugly, heavy, adjustable stem, to get the 18cm of drop I need. Without a forward post, the cannondale will only get you to ~77*.

However, if you will ride near 74/76 degrees, this will not be as big of an issue, and I would go for the cannondale, because you can get it with SRM, and Zipp Clinchers. You said you were getting a deal didnt you :-)

AF

I think everyone who has posted on this has mentioned an inherit feature of the Cannondale and that is the slack-ish seat tube angle. I see that as a limiting factor. When others in the industry (specifically Felt, Quintana Roo, Cervelo) have gone steeper or at least adopted the capability to go steeper Cannondale has opted to stay shallow-ish on the Six 13. I don't see that as an advantage for too many people.

The Plasma is a nice looking bike that won't go in a normal flight case. All other things being equal it doesn't travel well due to the deleicate rear derailluer hanger which is non-replaceable. Be careful with that. Depeding on the type of trainer you use it may be a tight fit in an indoor trainer too. Beyond that the Plasmas are nice bikes.

Both good bikes, both with their own unique set of strengths and weaknesses. I would put both of these bikes in a tier below other bikes that do more completely address the needs of triathletes who may travel and who do want a little steeper set-up and who will log long hours on the indoor trainer.

Good luck with whatever you choose and remember that ultimately the biggest decision is which one fits you optimally.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom, any idea when we'll see your review of the Kalibur?

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Portside Athletics Blog

Scott makes a travel bag specifically for the Plasma and in some cases is not needed depending on how much you cut the mast.
Trainer - no issue if you put in a standard skewer and yes I know this since I tested it out on the three most prominent trainers on the market and managed 2 trainer sessions a week on my Scott last season.

Last time I checked Scott's seat angle was 76 degrees and I can get a pretty steep set up on it if I want.

Tier below - Scott - strongly and respectfully disagree.

Perhaps Scott Montgomery should render an opinion? I believe he knows a thing or two about Scott's and Cannondale for that matter???

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- Matt

I can't make many statements about the Scott frame from a setup or ride perspective. It is certainly attractive, though I found the DT to be wider than need be (my opinion). It is a strong frame, and has some excellent design points. All in all a good frame.

As to the Cannondale, I can say alot. The Cannondale will not be as stiff as the scott, and will be slightly heavier (frame weights between 1200 and 1300 grams). However, it is nearly as strong in impact (not as good in fatigue). The Cannondale comes with a 75 degree seat angle. This was in order to have a machine that would comply with UCI time trial rules, but still be able to achieve a steeper (~78 degree) angle for triathlon racers. I ride fairly steep (77-79 degrees) and find I could get that position on the Cannondale. The Cannondale has a fairly short headtube as well, which allows a reasonable good drop to the bars. I can say that the 613 slice was created to fill a perceived gap in the Cdale line and will be replaced within the next year at the high end. I don't know if the frame will continue in the line, but I'm sure there will be continued customer support for the frame. I found the frame to be fast and responsive, but not twitchy when on the extensions.

I'd compare the costs for the frames and see which one fits best in the TT and HT lengths. My two cents.

How do I know these things? Well, I have moved on from the big C, but until mid september I was responsible for the carbon manufacturing on them. I hope this helps, please feel free to drop me a line if you have any other questions I can answer

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-Pete S.

Long Standing Champion of the Training Trifecta

Thanks guys.. this is good stuff.

Would I be able to use the Scott in a Regular TT?

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"Pace is just a matter of having enough RedBull..." -Rappstar

I believe so since Millar and Saunier Duval used them last season.

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- Matt

Tommorow at 11 A.M. I almost put it up this morning but I ran out of time. I d di put up a new editorial about Normann's win in Kona.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

SCOTT in a TT? most definitely. I did it myself back in October.

I have the team version and the only difference being frame weight vs. the LTD. I haven't checked my drop lately, but I believe it is right around 15cm. I think I can get it to 16cm without going adjustable stem or anything of that nature. IT all depends on how much of the mast you cut off. On a performance vote, I really like it. IT feels fast and is really smooth. All of the other folks mentioning the wide top tube/down tube may be speaking the truth as I have nothing to measure it against. All in all, I couldn't be happier. Plasma gets my vote

CANNONDALE VS. PLASMA SCOTT
I have been lucky enough to be in the industry for 25 years. My father started Cdale, and I started working there at 11, and in '84 Cdale lead the fat tube alloy conversion. After the moto mess our family was pushed aside. Before I left I bought a SCOTT CR1 to analyse in the Cdale lab which at the time was the best in the business. What we learned was the CR1 process allowed the bar to be raised. You could produce a lighter bike, with less bottom bracket deflection, with even more oversized tubes with thinner walls that would have an even longer fatigue life than any alloy or alloy/carbon mix. So after I left Cdale I pursued bringing SCOTT back into the USA because quite frankly it was a better process, and I knew from the Cdale experience when we replaced steel with aluminim that the same thing was going to happen again (now 20 years later) only this time with the innovative all carbon CR1 process that Peter Denk of SCOTT pioneered.

My first project after getting SCOTT USA up and running was building the PLASMA. I knew we could thin out the walls with carbon and shave precious weight and still be very aero. We went with 76 degree (or 78 if forward on the seat post) because I had learned long ago that more forward seat post designs resulted in a more aero forward position (less wind resistance) and fewer running injuries due to the less cramped riding position.

All carbon is the future and it is already here. At the bike count in Kona (I help Dan with the count each year) the hot brands were Cervelo, Kuota, Scott and all feature all carbon bikes. Once you go all carbon - you never look back. Any combo of carbon and ti, or carbon and alluminum is just a crutch. Unless you only have $1-$2k to spend, I always suggest waiting and save your chips and then go all carbon. You can easily get a PLASMA to 16lbs out of the box. I have never ridden a light enough bike and I never will. The goal is constant improvment and that is what keeps the sport exciting.

The final word, ride both bikes. I suggest this with Cervelo, Kuota and the rest. But I can tell you that the confidence and power transfer you will feel on the PLASMA is unmatched. The carbon is so darn efficient. You will notice it halfway out of the parking lot, but you will appreciate it the longer the ride.

Scott Montgomery
GM
SCOTT USA

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Scott
CEO
scott@clubrideapparel.com

Of particular note - is the outstanding customer service delivered by Scott USA.

I have the good fortune of having a Plasma Ltd - a beatifully finished, stiff and super slick aero frame.

Don't let speculation and poor judgement about the seatmast worry you - get onto a Plasma and ride it - you won't be sorry - I never once had any issue with my plasma fitting in a case.

Great products are one thing - great customer service is another - when you find a company which delivers BOTH - you know you are on a winner = SCOTT USA

AJ,

Thanks for the kudos, you make my day! Thanks for the support I will pass along to our staff.

CASE ( I FORGOT TO ADDRESS FROM OTHER POSTINGS)
Yes a PLASMA in most sizes will fit in a standard hard case. A 58cm is tough but this is less than 5% of riders. For the 56cm bikes you might have to remove the crank, but it will still fit. For the 54, 52, 49 you should be fine without removing anything.

We have a nice soft case that is fine for single leg trips. ie Salt Lake to Phoenix but I would not suggest for a three change trip. It is super easy though to roll up and toss in the trunk of your rental when you get to wherever without have to rent a big SUV or minivan.

We also have the 50mm seat clamp in case you later want to sell the bike or incase you overcut and decide to raise later.

We wanted to keep innovating, we knew we were new to the market, we ultimately felt the uncut post allowed us to shave weight. When you are new to the market you have to push innovation. Steve Larsen (pro-racer) liked the
idea and Peter Denk (the engineer) liked it too thus the reason we added to our Addict LTD new 2008 road bike.

Scott

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Scott
CEO
scott@clubrideapparel.com

Scott

Happy to speak up where credit is deserved - you personally, your company and entire team have been a pleasure to deal with.

Can't wait to see an Addict out at BAuth.

FEATHER weight for sure

Just sent you a PM

Like many people here I can only comment on one bike, I recently bought a plasma team on the reccomedation of my LBS mech, ( himself a multiple scott owner after riding bmc and quite a few other high end bikes)

my plasma has definitely made me faster both on the bike and into the run, stiffness is great comfort too,
for my $.02 worth, I can only see the LTD plasma getting better.

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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Adam Savage

Well after being one of the A%$#OLES who stood for 30 hours with my hand on that damn thing at SBR... let's just say it's been a love/hate... I will own it one day sort of thing.

:)

I got to see and ride both.... scott takes it..... now all i need is to sell my soul or body.... whatever gets more $, and but one.

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"Pace is just a matter of having enough RedBull..." -Rappstar

LOL..that's very funny.

I had the same deal b/w chosing a Cannondale or Scott. I decided to keep My OLD Cannondale IM1 for many reasons...mostly internal rate of return. ;o) But, seriously....if really came down to not having any problems with the IM1 and enjoying the geo/position. The bike won Kona last year for pete's sake! Of course, keeping the SI Hollogram is bonus too. When will other companies go with over-sized BB? The results speak for themself.

If Cannondale does do a "SystemSix" tri bike with 78-degrees next year, it will be the bomb........the aero guru's probably won't be happy, but the stiffess/rideability crowd will.

Scott's customer service is the absolute best. I had something very unfortunate happen in the middle of my main training block for IMLP last year and Scott came through in three days! I missed a total of one day on my bike and with Scott and the excellent customer service by my local bike shop they both gained a customer for life. The support their products and more importantly they support the people who buy them.

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- Matt

Dump your money on the engine.

Trust me!

I've been dunping it there for a year....
I'm a firm believe of the mantra "Coaches are better than disc wheels"


But I'm currently a student with a sponsor shop team which sell stuff at great prices..... I've been saving and well i'd like to get something good to last me.

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"Pace is just a matter of having enough RedBull..." -Rappstar

There does not appear to be a lot of love for Cannondale's in this thread. FWIW, like I mentioned earlier, I like mine.

I can say I like my IM Six13 better than the road version of the Six13. I rode one for a week and found I liked my Trek 5200 alot better. It may have been the build.

Reply to: Once you go all carbon - you never look back. Any combo of carbon and ti, or carbon and alluminum is just a crutch.
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What about all Ti. BTW: My wife has a Plasma that I ride on occasion very nice bike.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Plenty of love for Cannondale!!!

(This has alum SI now w/SRM)



This just came last week....(SRM needs to be installed..waiting for the bracket)