Isn't Lange comfortably in the main group out of T1? Not to say he can't become more efficient (thus easier effort), but if I'm reading the splits correctly, he's where he needs to be in the water, in the group with Frodo/Potts, etc. There really is no incentive to him to swim outside of that group, and it would be more to become efficient, so being "3rd" out of the water when you are in a group of 30 doesn't mean anything or matter really. Just make the group, which he has now, the last 2 years.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

For any athletes to move from front pack swimming to breakaway level in a world class field, it require almost Olympic level background swimming. (or olympic trial, division 1 etc)

So if Lange improve is swimming some more... it s very unlikely that it will results in a faster time...he will simple sit in the front group but at a LOW EFFORT and that could have a positive impact on his bike.....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

True and I've thought about that but it could be that in a few years the lead back will be at 46:XX rather than 48:XX as now. Who knows but it is a possibility in terms of going faster OA. OTOH, it may well be just as you implied and jonnyo said, that he could just swim at a lower effort, still come out in good position, and be fresher for the rest of the race.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

The better question is now that Lange has won, if the field will let him get away with staying on and conserving (both in the bike and the run).

The scenario I'm thinking is Macca recognizing that Crowie was doing something similar and convinced enough guys to force the bike. Crowie learned from it the next year though.

Then again, how keen will Kienle be to work with Sanders in the future?

 this year was all about forcing the bike....the pace was harder than it s been in years.... lange was already drop from the main group and ran his way from out of the top 10 to the win.

next year, the strong riders need to improve there swim and run...only way to win

ironman is a running race

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Gomez will start the run no more than 5-7 mins down of the leader...and will have a Lange-type run. Maybe not the course record, but he'll win. That's going to be an exciting race, much like this one was.

As for LS, he raced his heart out. Left it all out there. I wasn't a super big fan, but my appreciation for his tenacity went up a couple of notches.

I agree completely. Specifically, I think LS is going to remain swim focused (and rightly so). I'd also like to see if he could get some treatment for that leg and see if he can't improve that run form. Yes, I know he always has been like that, but it's certainly not ideal and it would be great to see a more balanced run form, with increased economy of movement for him.

Here live watching Lionel with Babbitt. Must see interview. More fans will come over to cheer for him

what do you think is ideal or more balance?

what does better running economy look like?

are you sure you know the answer to those questions? because i can tell you the ''changes'' you suggest would impact negatively is running economy.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Well I could easily ask the same of you? How do you know his current form is optimal for him? Are you suggesting there isn't room for improvement? How do you know that?

As to your question, it's pretty obvious his gate is lop sided. You don't have to be a run expert to know that. I know there a variances in people's form, but there are also some common threads among efficient runners at the high end of the sport. IMO, he'd be better served if he could eliminate the gallop and smooth out his gate and turnover.

what does better running economy look like?


I'd offer Lange as Exhibit A.

With elite athletes that run high volume over many years, the body is very good in self selecting the best running form for best economy for each person. in this case, what you see if 15 years of high volume running. What you see is the body selection of the best running stride for Lionel with his physiological limitation. of course, the last 10 miles of the race show reduction in range of motion from dehydration and fatigue but that is is running style none the less.

I m taking the wisdom of other world class coachs that have told me over and over....to not try to change the running form of a world class runner and to let the body do the selection.

Same case with Jeff Symonds that is a very ugly running style...that is world class running, or my ex girlfriend, Erica Cosmor that was a 2:5X runner off the bike and had the same loop sided stride as Lionel.

The gain will come from conditioning, better heat adaptation, better execution on race day but not from changing is running form.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Actually Sanders missed the previous course record by 11 seconds.

I find all this stuff about Sanders amusing though. He's clearly a fantastic athlete. He's won many races against some of the best athletes in the world, and many on ST are still talking shit. Even after his 2nd place yesterday.

And he offers hope to all the triathletes who want to run faster and think doing drills will get the job done. just f..ing run ;-)

running economy is very individual and specific to one person. trying to emulate lange run style would not work for Lionel. There is obvious ''issue '' in lionel body that force him into that specific stride. this is a stride that as been build over 10-15 years of competitive running. Change it and economy will be negatively affected. he will look ''more balance'' and run slower.

dont be be fool by what you see to judge what is best for him. Lange would most likely be outrun by Lionel in a 70.3. Would you recommend lange to change is running style?

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

What does that mean?

This. Throws down one of the best performances in the history of Kona, and he's still being man-splained by age groupers on "how to do triathlon."

Context clues. Heat adaptation.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Lol, he pm'd me.

Jonnyo, I think with zero changes, both Lionel and Sebi can beat Lange just with a windier day. Think Stadler 2004. But on a less windy year, then yes, they need a faster swim and faster run. Having said that, maybe if Lionel runs 1.5 min slower in the first 10K of the run, he may have had less of a fade. In his interview he mentioned that he overcooked it early in the run on Alii. If he goes 1.5 min slower in the first half and 4-5 min faster in the second half, now he's in a dead heat with Lange at the top of Palani....then it's a Macca vs Ralaert downhill drag race......who knows. I don't think Lionel has to do "much" to take out Lange. Lange needs to pull out 2:40 runs to win. He did it twice, but there are only so many of those types of runs in a career before they are no longer so effortless for most. Maybe Lange ends up like Allen or Scott, but could end up like Jacobs or DeBoom too. Fast bike+moderately fast run seems like more bankable career strategy. Let's see.

“Agesplained”

Now that I reread it, head adaptations could be a running form thing, so I get the confusion.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Lionel admitted on BWB that he needs to work on his nutrition. Said those last few miles were a result of not taking in enough electrolytes or liquid. Also mentioned that he may need to do some camps in Kona.

If Lionel had just dialed in his nutrition a bit better, I think he would have won yesterday.

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blog

A few things.....I don't know how many guys have improved to the level of what a LS has done in the time frame he has done it, from AG racing (almost rag tag knucklehead type of approach...and I mean that in a good way) to this level in 7 years. I better not say more cus I don't want to be accused of being in his fan club. I gave him a ton of shit for racing Kona last 2 years with the mental shape he did them in (eta: I should explain that- he showed up in Kona with weird expectations for his fitness/mental levels + he didn't seem to really be in "it"), and to change in 1 year the way he has.....it's pretty good turn around.

2nd, I find one thing strange is that I'm surprised a guy of his caliber of runner didn't "feel" the pace was too hot initially out of T2 for what the first 45 mins. He said he thought his watch was reading 4:12/k pace when he was actually running what 3:50ish/k pace. That's sorta a big difference atleast when you start talking about after 20 or so mins. That's like a 2 min difference in 5k pace, that's almost a zone difference. But that's just super over analyzing.

3rd, to make a guy have to run a 2:40 marathon and do it back to back years, that's both crazy odd luck, and just shows you the pedigree of athlete Lange has become.

Really was outstanding race, didn't get to see any of the swim but I saw the final 3 hours of the bike. For 1st time live feed on TV, that was a pretty legendary race to show the sport off to the general public.

Good day for the sport indeed!

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

"He just struck fear into the hearts of all!"

I’m fortunate that a lot of the pros come through the Woodlands for racing and training and they trust the team to prepare them for their races.. The Woodlands is a great spot to train in a lead up to Kona with the heat and humidity in September. It makes Kona feel like a brisk Spring day. This September we had 4 pros who raced Kona swim with the team on a regular to semi-regular basis. I got a very good look at all of them and how they were swimming.

For most of them, especially in the 48 minute range, unless they want to devote significant more time to swimming there isn’t much room to improve their time. Amberger off the front was in a different hemisphere from everyone else. I think that’s the speed most of them should be training for, but that’s a different argument. What I see with most of them is a big lack of efficiency. In other words, they could be swimming the same pace but come out of the water with their heart rates about 15-20% lower. I’m working with a front pack pro right now and we’ve already gotten his heart rate about 10% lower coming out of the water. We just started this experiment about 2.5 months ago.

Any questions, let me know.

Tim

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