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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
would you generally expect women to have a higher CdA compared to men of the same height and weight?

Only if they are particularly well-endowed (bad) or narrow-shouldered (good).

For somebody of Stevens' height and mass, a CdA of ~0.18 wouldn't be uncommon, but of course it depends on your precise shape, position, ad equipment.
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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damon_rinard wrote:
In 2009 when I was helping Kristin set the then-record at LSWT, her lowest CdA measured about 0.203, down from about 0.217, if I recall correctly.

This clip must have been her baseline position, since she's just starting:
https://www.youtube.com/...aB2SPKNk&t=5m29s[/quote]

She's under that mark now. I'm not sure that I'd bet Evelyn is significantly lower given her position and equipment choices.
-SD
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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Good to know.
And I agree.

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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AlexS wrote:
The banking angle at the black line is the same as it is at the top of the track.



That clarifies it thanks - agree with the rest...there are some possible issues I have with your blog math, but I'll sort it out myself before I make myself look stupid(er) by posting here.

But, back to the question being asked...

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but that's not what was asked, which was about the relative difference experienced while riding on the track. In other words, two riders going at 40mph on the track will experience the same g-force in the turns irrespective of their mass

So we've established that g-force will be the same, but force will vary with mass. I'm not - yet- totally convinced there's no "relative difference."

Let's say I do an hour all-out from a rolling start (to remove the effect of mass on initial forward acceleration). Then a strap on an aerodynamically invisible 20 kg. weight at my existing center-of-mass. And do another hour. Will I get the exact same time? My intuition says no - that it will take at least some marginal level of effort to counter the additional lateral force (with the same g-force) that results from the additional 20kg.

Which brings up the tire inflation calculation for the track. It seems if you had a precise inflation vs. weight chart you'd want to inflate your tires not to your static rider+equipment weight, but the something like the average between the static weight and the calculate pressing-into-the-track force at peak turn radius.




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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
AlexS wrote:

The banking angle at the black line is the same as it is at the top of the track.




That clarifies it thanks - agree with the rest...there are some possible issues I have with your blog math, but I'll sort it out myself before I make myself look stupid(er) by posting here.

But, back to the question being asked...

Quote:
but that's not what was asked, which was about the relative difference experienced while riding on the track. In other words, two riders going at 40mph on the track will experience the same g-force in the turns irrespective of their mass


So we've established that g-force will be the same, but force will vary with mass. I'm not - yet- totally convinced there's no "relative difference."

Let's say I do an hour all-out from a rolling start (to remove the effect of mass on initial forward acceleration). Then a strap on an aerodynamically invisible 20 kg. weight at my existing center-of-mass. And do another hour. Will I get the exact same time? My intuition says no - that it will take at least some marginal level of effort to counter the additional lateral force (with the same g-force) that results from the additional 20kg.

Which brings up the tire inflation calculation for the track. It seems if you had a precise inflation vs. weight chart you'd want to inflate your tires not to your static rider+equipment weight, but the something like the average between the static weight and the calculate pressing-into-the-track force at peak turn radius.
Adding such a hypothetical 20kg to a 64kg rider and 8kg bike will reduce distance achieved due to the additional time taken to get up to speed initially (very minor) and then extra rolling resistance due to the additional mass. It'd cost about 450-500 metres at a W/m^2 required to ride at women WR hour speeds on a concrete track. Less distance would be lost on a high quality timber track due to the lower overall proportion of energy demand from rolling resistance (e.g. such a mass would add ~350m).

The lateral forces don't really come into play because the track pushes back as much as you are pushing into the track (else you would sink into or float above the track - hence there is no work done in that direction). It's the additional rolling resistance that matters and that's proportional to "weight" felt at the track, which of course varies depending on where you are on the track and COM velocity but can be considered to be an average value per lap. Add 20kg and all you do is up the average rolling resistance by whatever proportion 20kg is of your original mass.

In the case above, rolling resistance increases from ~10% of the total energy demand to ~13% of the total energy demand.

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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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The bike . . .

http://cyclingtips.com/...zed-s-works-shiv-tt/

Info on streaming live video here - saturday at noon MST

http://velonews.competitor.com/...s-hour-record_396379
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
http://velonews.competitor.com/...e-hour-record_395878

"The precise power figure she’ll be shooting for is still a secret. But watching her power figures bounce up and down on Henderson’s laptop during her 48km effort — her race-day target — suggests something in the neighborhood of 270-290 watts. That would be enough for her slight, 120-pound frame to hit the mark."

"Specialized has provided a track version of its Shiv time trial frame, and Stevens will run a pair of Zipp discs (narrower on the front, and stiffer on the rear) along with an ultra-thin track version of Specialized’s Turbo Cotton tires on race day."

If 280W gets only 48km, that is higher drag than I'd expect. CdA of ~.21. I'm also skeptical that she could sustain that power at 6000ft. I think she will reach her goal, but with less power and drag than that.


I've tested her a half dozen times (all in the off-season) and those are quite reasonable. On better form, I see no issues. Knowing Neal, I wouldn't doubt he's also having her do intervals a few % under the target.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Last edited by: xtrpickels: Feb 25, 16 13:44
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [themadcyclist] [ In reply to ]
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why the upturned bar ends?

themadcyclist wrote:
The bike . . .

http://cyclingtips.com/...zed-s-works-shiv-tt/

Info on streaming live video here - saturday at noon MST

http://velonews.competitor.com/...s-hour-record_396379

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the info! Just power testing or aero too? And at sea level or altitude?
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Total speculation here - but it is probably what she is used to. From the articles, it sounds like she has not spent extensive time on the track or on this bike.

She may also be limited by sponsor as they do look like specialized bars. Again - total speculation - I just saw the articles on her twitter feed and thought folks here might be interested in the bike pics.
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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She is staying smooth. Looks good

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [leegoocrap] [ In reply to ]
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Speeding up a little now, that's probably the strategy. Looks good for beating Longo.
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Or maybe not... slowing a bit and looking a little ragged.
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [leegoocrap] [ In reply to ]
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Oh ya! Pouring it ne, now! Needs 48.160 km.
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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And... I think she changed her mind about that...

Suffering like crazy now.
Last edited by: rruff: Feb 27, 16 11:54
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah she is crushing those little bumpers!

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Digging dip now - needs to dig a little deeper if she wants Longo's record
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [themadcyclist] [ In reply to ]
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God that looks so painful
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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She didn't hug the black line very well, there were many times she was on the red line
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [PMo] [ In reply to ]
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Lap times are going down again - she wants the all time record.
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [themadcyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Unofficial 47.667km is what I'm seeing right now...
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [Cafe Lactate] [ In reply to ]
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Commentator said 48.3 but I think he counted the last lap. The clock they were showing said 47.975 I think.
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [Cafe Lactate] [ In reply to ]
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47.866 unofficially
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Re: Evelyn Stevens, UCI hour record attempt, Feb 27 in CO [Cafe Lactate] [ In reply to ]
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So what was the benefit she got from the altitude difference and 333m vs 250m track? Would she have beaten the previous record at the same track?
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