I like the taste of EFS and really do not like the taste of efs pro. If you haven't tasted EFS pro yet give it a shot before making any conclusions.

I would also caution about having a set plan regardless of weather conditions. If you try drinking all that crap and you're not sweating too much you're asking for trouble. You can't replace what you haven't lost yet.

Hey Nick...just following up on your e-mail (i.e. This thread).

FWIW, generally speaking I avoid ST as I am absolutely dumbfounded w/ where the sport of triathlon has gone & the unnecessary complexity I see w/ virtually everything from bikes to nutrition to goggles.

In reading through your post, you are making things WAY TOO COMPLICATED. Remember, there are (3) main variables when it comes to race-day nutrition:

Calories/CHO
Fluids
Electrolytes

Everything else on top of that is hyperbola & for the most part, marketing nonsense. There's a very good reason we're (PBN) are not carrying EFS Pro & outside of putting more $$ in our pockets, I cannot recommend in good conscious, that an athlete spend $50 on 2LB of carbohydrate powder that has no measurable difference from the regular EFS.

Does it have additional ingredients? Sure.
Do those additional ingredients justify the cost? IMHO NO!

With that, I was at the ST Roadshow in NJ this weekend & saw people drooling over a $15K Cervelo. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone...that an age group athlete would even contemplate on spending $10-15k on a bike?!? LOL...but I digress ;-) Conversely, 5ft away is a P2 that has been ridden to more IM victories than probably any bike in the world AND cost a fraction of the price & no interest.

As I mentioned, triathlon has gotten so overly complicated & athletes are (generally) going no faster than they did 20yrs ago. As such, don't be like so many & make this simple strategy of maximizing calories/fluids/electrolytes turn into quantum physics :-)

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Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts

Thank you, Brian, for the response.

I agree with regard to over complicating things and while embarrassing, I'll leave my OP unedited in case others have similar difficulties. My thought on EFS Pro is that, after getting the requisite discounts through their website to make it not quite so ridiculous in price, is that I can stomach it, where as the normal EFS is, for me, insanely sweet and difficult to drink for too long. So, the EFS Pro may be about the same stuff, but it's in a palatable form for me.

One option is to get over the sweetness of EFS and just do it (which is an option). I tried other options like adding salt caps to Roctane and supplementing with gels, but then I'm at or above the cost per serving of EFS Pro and, though the sweetness is less, it is insanely salty.... whereas EFS Pro has the electrolyte levels without tasting like sea water.

I'm definitely open to thoughts with regard to a drink mix/creation that hits the requisite fluids, CHO, and electrolytes without being overly sweet or overly salty. feel free to PM/email if this forum isn't your favorite place to communicate.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

and I'll take the bait on the P5x: show me another bike that makes adjusting the front end as easy as adjusting a seatpost is on any bike... not saying that feature is worth $15k, but I am saying that, for me, that is the attractive part of the P5x. To say that feature is not needed, well I would strongly disagree and I think we'll see front ends that mimic this Cervelo/Enve front end and they will be as ubiquitous on TT bikes as adjustable seatposts are today on all bikes - the $15k price tag, in my mind, is justifiable if that adjustable front end is the end result.

and the same goes for EFS Pro - if it ushers in more drink mixes that hit those electrolyte numbers without being overly sweet and salty, then the price of EFS-Pro is justifiable.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

OMG, is it April 1?

EXHIBIT A on how I wonder where triathlon got so far off the rails that a $15K bike can be justified as a result of a front end & seatpost. Seriously Nick...buy a P2, be just as fast & save >$10,0000.

I feel like I'm the only sane person in a nuthouse, hence the reason I avoid this place.

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Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts

This is my idea for this year. I am mixing all my gels and salt tabs into an aero water bottle and adding water to thin it down. I am going to do water from the course and hope it works!

A calorie bottle works well (used one for my last 70.3). Just try it in training to make sure: you can stomach the mix, it's thin enough to flow through the nozzle, and have a plan B in case you lose the bottle.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I have 6 more training weekends with long rides to test it out. I am pretty excited about not having to carry a ton of gels. Any tips other than what you listed above?

Some gels mix/dissolve well with water (straw/ban powergel, hammer, etc.) and some don't (GU chocolate, GU peanutbutter, etc.). Also see if the salt caps destroy the taste (and should be seperated) or not.

Since you don't have single serving packets, have bottle markings to make sure you build a sense of how much to consume.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Thanks! I will start testing this weekend.

1st, I just did a hard mid-long ride with just EFS (non pro) drink mix and I think I was over talking the sweetness - it worked very well ... for a 69 degree day. I'll compare it to EFS pro on the 96 degree, 85% humidity days, like we had here on Sunday.

2nd, I'm not going to buy a $15k bike. But, just like with crazy and expensive concept cars... or a $90k Tesla, the expensive end of things is where innovation takes place that later trickles down (no, not as in the rent-seeking fraud that is trickle-down economics). So, I'll drool over that technology, like the people at the ST expo's, but it's an anticipatory-drool for the day that seatpost style front ends are on the P2's of the world. So, if the dentists who buy the P5x allow for that innovation to take place, I'll cheer those dentists on.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Hi All -


Following up on this thread since looking for nutrition ideas


I've been testing the EFS Pro and Liquid Shot and I'm a little confused on the Sodium/Electrolytes intake. Generally, I've heard this formula for IM:
"1g per KG of weight of CHO/hour or 300 calories, 500 mg of sodium/electrolytes and 35 ounces of water per hour on the bike. 200 calories, 500 mg of sodium/electrolytes and 20 ounces of water per hour on the run"


I've used this rule of thumb on 7 ironmans and the last few have been pretty good. Though, I usually use a mix of solids (bars, etc..) on the bike with Nuun Tablets (250mg sodium/tablet). I'm about 70kg (so that's about 1 bar + gel per hour = 70g CHO/hour) plus sodium drink.


EFS Pro says over 1000mg of electrolytes per serving, which is more than double my general formula per hour (assuming Sodium = electrolytes)! Do I understand the ingredients correctly since you categorise different minerals as "electrolytes" (eg: Calcium, etc..)?


What do you think about this plan for an Ironman (Copenhagen has historically been relatively cool - 75-83f degrees, not much humidity):
- pre race - ultragen + oatmeal/toast, sip on bottle of EFS Pro
- Swim - half liquid shot with water before swim start
- Bike -
Per Hour:
1/2 bottle (200 cal/25g CHO) of liquid shot + Drink mix (I was thinking of mixing Skratch labs with EFS Pro (sorry) to mix up the taste (Skratch: 360mg sodium+20g sugar per serving)
- One bottle would EFS Pro+Skratch (1000mg electrolytes+20g sugar+50g Carb+80 cal) + 1/2 bottle Liquid Shot (25g CHO/200 Cal) => 75g CHO, 280 Cal, 1000mg+ Electrolytes
- Run - Liquid shots, water, and coke....survive!


Should I be looking at Calories or Grams of Carb per hour? Any thoughts on mixing Carbo Pro with EFS Pro instead?


Thank you very much!

Ridehard - I've always been a fan of EFS products.
Can you please explain why First Endurance cannot offer a normal shipping rate to Canada, like every other mail order company in North America?
To ship two jugs of EFS pro to Canada, the only shipping option on your website is $86 US via Fedex. Seriously?

No doubt this is tough. We pass on the exact shipping rate from FedEx & UPS over to our customer and no doubt its expensive. We do offer the option of free shipping to Canada on orders of $200 or more. I know this is a bit expensive but its the only way we can make the rate work. Our customers who have signed up for VIP rewards also get deep discounts prior to the free shipping. For example we just sent out an offer for 70% off EFSPRO cucumber which if you someone took advantage of and ordered enough to get to $200 they would get a pretty screaming deal. Add a bottle of OptygenHP and MultiVPRO and you are there.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

SBRcoffee - That does sound expensive for shipping. I'd suggest trying to go for the $200 or trying out the VIP club. If I was in N America, I surely would. If you are in a bigger training block, I suggest the Multi V Pro + Optygen. I just started about 1.5 months ago and it definitely made a HUGE difference in my energy and ability to handle more training. I've put in more hours, intensity, and I still have good energy to play with the kids.

I don't work for EFS, but their products are awesome.

Ridehard - Are you getting a new UK distributor? I live in London and the EFS UK distributor is closing down. The EU ones are not bad options since shipping isn't that bad. Do you have a VIP club here?

See, bitching online helps - I never knew the $200 thing!!! :)

I asked about the shipping thing via your website about a year ago, and was basically told "Yeah, sorry".
Is the $200 thing new?

I have friends that use EFS as well. Will have no issue spending $200.

Cheers

Update on my original post:

I've gone to using just EFS Pro, no gels and no bars, and it's going really well. I've been keeping my rides under 4 hours, so I haven't tested that fluid-only plan for myself on much longer rides, but my 3-3.5 hour rides are high intensity and it's been great. I use the normal EFS when it's cooler out. And, Ultragen immediately after the workout, which is helping quite a bit with jumping back into work that requires a lot of cognitive resources.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

What strength are you mixing the Pro?

3 scoops per 12oz. I can get by with 2 scoops if it's cool out and the workout is shorter, but since I'll be racing on 3 scoops/12oz, I've been wanting to practice with what I race with. Also, if it's cool out, I drop down to the EFS Drink Mix at 1 scoop/12oz, that way I'm keeping my calories up. I just came down from the mountains of VA to Charlotte and those extra electrolytes are needed in this humidity - 85 degrees here is rough with the humidity!

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Thx. I find it a bit silly that they quote the serving size 'per 12 oz'. That is half the size of a typical cycling bottle.
So I guess for a 70.3 I'll likely be able to put 240 cals into the xlab torpedo bottle.

I agree, but then again look at the size at those super light Elite water bottles all the pro cyclists use, and for a lot of runs and swims, 12oz is all I need, so I guess I get it...

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Yes the $200 thing is new. We quietly introduced it about 3 months ago.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

DSHEA (what regulates our labels) likes 'common' serving sizes like 8oz or 12oz.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

Thanks for the update and glad it's working out for you. I've tried a few scoops in a normal bottle (21-22oz) and it's a little salty. Thus, why I mixed one scoop of Skratch to get a little sweetness. I did 2 scoops of Skratch + 1 scoop EFS Pro and seems to tastes better. But maybe I didn't have enough calories. Will try to up the EFS Pro only and top up with Liquid Shot on a long ride. I'm doing a very hilly 140mi ride in a week and thinking of testing out a non-solid strategy.

After the Satan's Piss mix and after the sweetness of other drink mixes, including normal EFS, the EFS Pro is just right in terms of being sweet and salty, but I can understand it being too much for some folks. I just did a run in some intense heat and humidity and I appreciated the saltiness.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram