I have long believed that Lance doped as did much of the peloton. I also believe he is a pretty crummy friend.

What I find to be BS now is the "yeah I doped, we all did, but you know, I stopped in 2006." Come on really? Some of you (Danielson, Levi) have just gotten better since then.

Doping still exists in cycling, I would prefer the sport to be clean, but I am still a fan and will still race my crits, RR, and TTs. I think the punishment on these guys should have been a bit harsher, but I am sure it was pretty lenient to ensure that they testified. I look forward to reading their books.

As an aside, I rode with Danielson last year, and had a good time.

Pretty sure I just rambled. It sucks that doping exists so prevalent in cycling, as I am sure it was in triathlon through the 90s and early 2000s. I am sure it still exists in the professional field now as well.

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-- Aaron Davidson

Anyone know if the witness affidavits have been released?

On the broader subject, the biggest loser by far in this whole spectacle is the sport.

Christians statement http://christianvdv.com/...nde-velde-statement/

Seriously, if this whole mess will finally get him to shut up and go away it will all have been worth it. Just look at Indurain... Does anyone doubt he doped? Plenty successful (i.e. refutes part of the LA 'defense' that he's just being singled out because he won so much), didn't rub anyone's nose in it, and then quietly retired out of the spotlight. Don't make yourself a target and dare people to take shots at you, and the the natural tendency is to let sleeping dogs lie. Unfortunately, LA's ego is the type that craves attention so badly he'll take negative attention over being ignored.

BEST POST YET!!!

So if I understand the analogy, your position is that these riders continued to ride dirty throughout the investigation and USADA had knowledge of this? ("low level guys stay on the streets and sell drugs...")

I don't think that reflects reality. While these guys could still be doping I doubt very highly that USADA has evidence of any recent doping by any of them.

Probably cause they were not looking. They were just out for the big fish.

I don't understading the reasoning where people don't think Lance doped, but then say everyone was doping. where is the proof that everyone was doping? We can't accept a dozen eyewitnes's for one person but we accept just a general thought for all others.
What if the doping wasn't as widespread as thought and it was really just Armstrongs teams being that organized at it.

Ha ha...Pics, or it didn't happen...

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"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt

There has been doping in cycling since 1906. I doubt it was just Armstongs team organizing it.

Analogies are simply tools to illustrate points; the previous point was clearly about denial. It's not as though he said one was just as bad as the other, or "no different than..." or some other figure of speech that's commonly used to equate two unrelated cases. People who can't distinguish that from the point of an analogy are the freaking idiots.

From Levi's WSJ article....

" I've been racing clean for more than 5 years in a changed and much cleaner sport."

Uhhhh.....yeah, Levi. Right. I believe you now. Well...I think I have one niggling little question or two. You claimed to be clean for the last 5 years, but you continued racing in Johan Bruyneel operations, and on the same RS team as Lance, who is said in USADA's document to have been doping in 2009 and 2010. And you want us to believe you did not dope during that time period?

Hmmmmm....what to believe?

Maybe Levi's calendar counts years a little more quickly than mine. Like maybe 5 years for every one of mine....maybe.

Thanks but not looking for witness' self serving statements of contrition dated October 10, 2012.

Rather, want to read the signed affidavits relied on by USADA as the testimonial evidence offered against LA. The tidbits from those affidavits sprinkled in the 200 page report are not very useful.

So people who use anoligies are just like people that rape children. They both try to deny the thruth of what they are saying. Not that I am saying you are a child rapist. Yea I see how that works..

Time to start looking in to who's supplying the time-shifting equipment, I doubt Levi and Paul Ryan are acting alone.

No, the biggest losers are those idiots who have supported Cancer Jesus all these years. The egg is on your faces. Especially people like Sally Jenkins, who is supposed to be a journalist.

Hey Dan, where is that canned Op-Ed you talked so much about. I have an idea, why not print it out, roll it up really tight and shove it up...well, maybe I'll be nice and just sit back and gloat at all of the stupidity that seems to have floated to the top on this forum.

EDIT: Turns out Wonderboy was doping while training for Tri. Hey, if you guys want a venereal disease like that in your sport, it says more about you than it does about him anyway. Good luck with the break-away league!

How is using an analogy equal to denying truth? Just because you didn't like the subject matter.

Any maybe, just maybe you could actually return to the subject being discussed, rather than haring off down the path of a tenuous analogy?

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

This brings up an interesting question. Dan doesn't like people being accused of doping without proof thereof. What about people questioning whether an admitted doper actually stopped doping when he said he did? Fair game?

Hey, it's your analogy...

Well maybe people can stop comparing Lance to a child molester. What's next Hitler?

ha ha.....that works much better and is more believable anyway!!

oh yea, like we can believe that one too.....just like all the others stopped using in 2006....right!

Ah, nice. And there ends any hope of rational discussion.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

More specifically a point to be made that hints of personal opinion about these other team members.... I thought he was interested in process?

The wheels have officially come off...