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2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees
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And we reach the end....not gonna bother to post the course profile 'cuz it is flat and ends on the Chamos Elysees. Can't think of the last time it wasn't a bunch gallop.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not certain what sprinters are still in the race....I know Cav bailed the other day (lasted much longer than I thght he would....never thought he would bother with Ventoux). But assuming he is still in the race (and I think he is), I'm going with Griepel.

Congrats to Froome....not really a huge fan, but you can't argue with his dominance of this race. He did it unconventionally and with cunning. No one would ever have bet on him basing his win on a downhill attack and then attacking in the crosswinds on a flat stage.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
And we reach the end....not gonna bother to post the course profile 'cuz it is flat and ends on the Chamos Elysees. Can't think of the last time it wasn't a bunch gallop.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not certain what sprinters are still in the race....I know Cav bailed the other day (lasted much longer than I thght he would....never thought he would bother with Ventoux). But assuming he is still in the race (and I think he is), I'm going with Griepel.

Congrats to Froome....not really a huge fan, but you can't argue with his dominance of this race. He did it unconventionally and with cunning. No one would ever have bet on him basing his win on a downhill attack and then attacking in the crosswinds on a flat stage.

OK, here I was talking about minimizing TT's to keep the race's outcome more exciting, but heck if you are going to have them, let's save the final TT for Paris like in 89:


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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Three predictions for tomorrow.

- We'll get some pictures of Froome "drinking champagne" next to the Sky team car.

- Kristoff will win the sprint.

- All nine riders from Sky will cross the finish line together, line abreast, with their arms across each other's shoulders.

(At least two of these will be correct.)

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Froome must be doping! Lol j/k. I reallly wanted #quintana to win but his tremendously pasive way of riding only enfused froome to attack even more! Maybe next year for nairo!

Well do mr froome

Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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I will close out the same way I started back in Stage 1. Thanks again for doing these daily stage threads - it's been awesome following along and getting the insight of the ST knowledge base.

And Sagan for the win.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Go Gorilla! Greipel for the win, though I think both Kristov and Kittel will be serious contenders. Sagan has been too busy sowing up the green jersey to be super sharp for tomorrow.

Couqard (no idea how to spell that) would be a cool underdog win. Especially if Volkler was part of the lead out train, though I don't see that happening. Too greedy
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Random thoughts:

- Kreuziger, great tour, smashed it for Sagan, Sagan smashed it for him. Teammates.

-Sagan, I never saw Merckx but I can't imagine a more complete bike racer, super to see him develop the way he has and he's great for the game.

- Someone needs to pop Bernard Hinault. Get really tired about what a bad dude le badger is. He was a tough, great bike racer but let's face it, out in the civilian world he'd get his little ass kicked plenty. He shoves journalists and soigneurs, and cameramen and didn't hesitate to back stab his teammate Lemond. Good riddance.

- Great young crop of racers coming up and in a (not gonna say squeaky) clean peloton, but a much more fair environment overall, in my amateur opinion. Alaphillipe is dynamic, Barguil, Yates, Bardet.

- Still feel bad for Tejay. Don't know how much is mental, how much is physical. Doesn't really matter. Still sucks.

- Astana, Katusha....still sketchy team cultures. Don't trust them at all.

- Adam Hansen, just finished another GT, amazing.

- Froome is a real, complete bike racer. Congrats to him. Props to anyone who can finish this race.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Even though I'm not a Froome fan, he won with panache, which I think is one of the reasons he hasn't endeared himself to everyone. One of the more complete TdF race displays in some time. Granted, it might be more interesting to see what he'd do without the lineup around him but credit is certainly do.

Just me or does anyone else have an issue cheering for a guy who had unexpectedly impressive performance, but whose brother is serving a suspension?
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Jul 24, 16 8:27
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Even though I'm not a Froome fan, he won with panache, which I think is one of the reasons he hasn't endeared himself to everyone. One of the more complete TdF race displays in some time. Granted, it might be more interesting to see what he'd do without the lineup around him but credit is certainly do.

Just me or does anyone else have an issue cheering for a guy who had unexpectedly impressive performance, but whose brother is serving a suspension?

Agreed on yates.

as a froggy, I can only be pleased with bardet's performance. Pinot has been dissapointing to say the least. Rolland had a great first week, his best first week ever actually on the tour and then unfortunately everything went downhill for him. I feel sorry for the guy. I also would have loved to see alaphillipe nail a stage, but hey, maybe next year.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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The Gorilla does it again, though Sagan gave it a run coming off his wheel, back wheel skipping around and all. Just a fraction too late

I still enjoy watching the tactics of the sprint finales. Wish Cavendish had stuck around to give it a run. His 2009 finale with Renshaw leading out was complete domination:


Last edited by: markg: Jul 24, 16 10:57
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [markg] [ In reply to ]
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markg wrote:
The Gorilla does it again, though Sagan gave it a run coming off his wheel, back wheel skipping around and all. Just a fraction too late

I still enjoy watching the tactics of the sprint finales. Wish Cavendish had stuck around to give it a run. His 2009 finale with Renshaw leading out was complete domination:


Do you think Sagan could have taken the win if his back wheel did not skip?
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [frenchieTT] [ In reply to ]
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Would have loved to see Alaphiippe win yesterday....he was in perfect position. I think he blew it with a few over aggressive attacks with 4-5K left of climbing and spiking things too high. Also would have liked to see Coquard in the sprint today, but a flat with 3.5K to go...how cruel.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Even though I'm not a Froome fan, he won with panache, which I think is one of the reasons he hasn't endeared himself to everyone. One of the more complete TdF race displays in some time. Granted, it might be more interesting to see what he'd do without the lineup around him but credit is certainly do.

Just me or does anyone else have an issue cheering for a guy who had unexpectedly impressive performance, but whose brother is serving a suspension?

If you look at Yates and Quintana's races, they are quite "parallel". Both hung in on the climbs, both lost time in the TT's, both are around the same size and both seem to have very similar watts per kilo (at least the reduced version of Quintana that we saw). From what I understand Yates' brother's suspension \.

This is what I read about Simon Yates' suspension (supported by his team...original source wikipedia):

In April 2016 it emerged that Yates had tested positive for the banned substance terbutaline in an in-competition test during Paris–Nice the previous month,[19] where he finished seventh overall.[20] In a statement Orica-GreenEDGE took full responsibility for the test result, saying that the team's doctor had failed to apply for a therapeutic use exemption for an asthma inhaler used by Yates which triggered the positive test.[19]Subsequently the UCI issued a statement indicating that Yates would not be provisionally suspended from competition due to the substance he had tested positive for.[21] On 17 June, the UCI decided to issue a four month ban for "non intentional doping", backdated from 12 March (the date the positive sample was collected), preventing Yates from competing at the 2016 Tour de France.[22]
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:

Do you think Sagan could have taken the win if his back wheel did not skip?

Hard to say. Greipel might have had a bit of extra traction as well to hold him off as well. I do know that the combination of the cobbles and the painted logos in the approach to the line have made getting power down to the road somewhat sketchy in previous races. Cavendish just about got launched off his bike a few meters from the line when he was trying to come around Kittel in 2013.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Three predictions for tomorrow.

- We'll get some pictures of Froome "drinking champagne" next to the Sky team car.

- Kristoff will win the sprint.

- All nine riders from Sky will cross the finish line together, line abreast, with their arms across each other's shoulders.

(At least two of these will be correct.)
Biere? Couldn't afford champagne?





"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [markg] [ In reply to ]
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I never ceased to be amazed how Sagan positions himself perfectly. For "not a sprinter" I don't think there is anyone better at being in the right spot. Pretty damn close to taking that one; had the bike-length gap not opened on Greipel's wheel or it was 10m longer...
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Hinault's retired from ASO duties, so you're going to have to find him in deepest, darkness Brittany if someone wants to punch him.

I don't think anyone is similar to Merckx (or Hainualt or Coppi etc) anymore - no-one races all season and wins both classics and GT's in this day and age. I think the closest could be Nibali, maybe, maybe Thomas or Martin.

But yes, the new French crop are maturing nicely. Hopefully 2014 and 2016 weren't glitches and show a genuine progression from specialists to GT contenders.

Shame about Porte, but at least he showed he can finish and be competitive at a GT (as opposed to having a sketchy 3rd week). TJ? Where to from here...?

Anyways, looks like I'm going to have some more podcasts to listen to now the tour's finished. I'm also going to miss the zwift Trek coffee rides also.

Swim. Overbike. Walk.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
markg wrote:
The Gorilla does it again, though Sagan gave it a run coming off his wheel, back wheel skipping around and all. Just a fraction too late

I still enjoy watching the tactics of the sprint finales. Wish Cavendish had stuck around to give it a run. His 2009 finale with Renshaw leading out was complete domination:



Do you think Sagan could have taken the win if his back wheel did not skip?



That was my immediate thought on the first slow motion replay. That was a big skip that certainly scrubbed some speed.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:

Do you think Sagan could have taken the win if his back wheel did not skip?




That was my immediate thought on the first slow motion replay. That was a big skip that certainly scrubbed some speed.


No way. That was within 50m of the line. The sprint was done and dusted by that point.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
- All nine riders from Sky will cross the finish line together, line abreast, with their arms across each other's shoulders.



Y'know they lost a minute and a half dropping to the back like that?

Lucky they had time to spare

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Do you think Sagan could have taken the win if his back wheel did not skip?


That was my immediate thought on the first slow motion replay. That was a big skip that certainly scrubbed some speed.

Maybe he had the same rear wheel as Kittel? That bitch had some backspin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw1cKD5nAWg

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
- All nine riders from Sky will cross the finish line together, line abreast, with their arms across each other's shoulders.




Y'know they lost a minute and a half dropping to the back like that?

Lucky they had time to spare

Technically since they were with the bunch at the 3000m to go line, they could dog it all they wanted and get the same time. Froome should have gotten off his bike and ran down the cobblestones in his carbon shoes for the photo opp!
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
iamuwere wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Do you think Sagan could have taken the win if his back wheel did not skip?


That was my immediate thought on the first slow motion replay. That was a big skip that certainly scrubbed some speed.


Maybe he had the same rear wheel as Kittel? That bitch had some backspin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw1cKD5nAWg

I saw 2 large skips in the last quarter second and Sagan losing by say half a meter. Basically during the skip he is "coasting" rather than accelerating....could he have gained ~4 m/s**2 of additional acceleration (rough guess given he has to cover an extra meter in a quarter second) to cover the delta....in hindsight likely not.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France STAGE 21 Discussion Thread......*spoilers* Champs Elysees [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
- All nine riders from Sky will cross the finish line together, line abreast, with their arms across each other's shoulders.




Y'know they lost a minute and a half dropping to the back like that?

Lucky they had time to spare
Marginal Loses.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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