It seems strange for a university to require a "swim test" I had never heard of that. My mother has never learned how to swim. She's 84 now so it's not happening now. But she did make sure I took swimming lessons when I was young. I remember we had swimming in gym class in middle school and I don't recall any kids not participating. But I didn't keep track of them so it's possible some were able to opt-out if they couldn't swim.

I'd be willing to bet that even with 6 months training, there is no way the -average- american would make the swim cutoff, regardless of what stroke they use. And many wouldn't make it 4km regardless of how much time they had, unless they had a constant stream of kayaks to hang on to.

NOW, if you changed it to read,"the average american who can make it through 4km of swimming, can finish an ironman", that I'd believe.

I agree with you. There is nothing magical about finishing an ironman and I dare say anyone that is in average condition could do it with some training, not much. Ever seen the fat guys walking their way through the run? Lots of them.

I have a buddy that does 2 or 3 Ironmans a year and never trains the swim. He may jump in the pool once before the race to make sure he can float but that's it. He swims about a hour twenty five but kills it on the bike and run.

Okay, you may have a point. But what if we pretend that they're going to wear a wetsuit regardless of the conditions. If you factor in the MOST buoyant wetsuit on the market, I think a lot of people would hold a 3:13/100 yd pace. But yes, the swim would probably be the limiting factor. The bike would be questionable only because of equipment choices. If we put the average person on a stock P2 with correct gearing and tire pressure, (a reasonable bike for someone racing that distance to have) I think most people wouldn't have a problem.

Hmm....I guess I'd just say that swim speed isn't really a factor. I'm more referring to the fact that the average person with no real training (or 6 months) won't make it through a 4km swim without their arms seizing up, etc. And you can drown with a wetsuit on! lol

But again, if you can get them through the swim, then yeah, I don't even think they need a decent bike, anything that rolls, they can probably get to the finish.

I wouldn't be so sure. I volunteered at a 60 mile charity ride last fall. Even with all summer to train, there were people who couldn't complete the ride.

True.
17 hours seems so easy, but people forget that someone without training, their body just ain't gonna go for that long! Lots of puking and passing out... :)

The easy way for your triathlete roomie to test his "thesis" is for him to enter an IM distance event next weekend and see how he gets on. He'll most likely beat the cut off, but the question he will have to answer the day after race day is how close he thinks he is to the mean (median? I have no fucking idea which one is right. The one what defines the 50th centile of athletic performance) of American athletic ability.

FWIW I suspect that the majority of adults in most nations would have trouble hitting the swim cut off even with a buoyant wetsuit. I'd be willing to bet that cramp on the bike would cut a lot more too - I'd be quite surprised is a majority made it to T2 with enough time in hand to walk the run.

ETA: just seen the posts immediately above; apols for repeating those points. But they're right, so worth repeating!

I don't think 10% of (untrained) men could make the swim cutoff.

I've been saying the following for years.....If you asked 100 men how far they could swim (front crawl), 98 of them would lie to you (over-promise). I'm not saying they would lie to you, intentionally. But, they would lie to you. I don't think the average male out there can swim 200 yds without stopping.

Anyone who survived the swim would be in for a real eatin' and drinkin' treat for the next 10-15 hours. Sans a fairly serious swimming background, I don't think the average, untrained male stands a chance in hell.

Thanks for sharing that, Brooks.
Speaking of swim tests at University... there's still a requirement in place at Cornell University.
https://pe.cornell.edu/...ry-cornell-swim-test

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Karen ST Concierge

Your roommate sounds like someone who used to be great in sports and still would be if it wasn't for that bad injury he got in high school...

Not a flippin chance in hell. I trained hard to learn how to swim that first year of tris and it took me 3 races just to get to the point I could stick my face in the water and not hyper ventilate. Not sure why it was happening but for the first season I was just trying to get swim in the open water without freaking out. I had the endurance but there was something in the back of my head that was messing with me. Either way, I don't think 80% of Americans would make the swim cutoff much less the entire race.

^^^This.

I was a decent endurance athlete and came to IM training on the heels of a 68-minute 10-miler and a few Internationals under my belt. I had to do significant work to build the strength to perform in the bike leg. Oh, and then there's the little remaining portion called the marathon, I think?

Assuming he makes the swim, the biggest issue will be dealing with the ass-hatchet of spending 5h+ on a bike saddle

Your roommate sounds like someone who used to be great in sports and still would be if it wasn't for that bad injury he got in high school...

mickison wrote:

It seems strange for a university to require a "swim test" I had never heard of that. My mother has never learned how to swim. She's 84 now so it's not happening now. But she did make sure I took swimming lessons when I was young. I remember we had swimming in gym class in middle school and I don't recall any kids not participating. But I didn't keep track of them so it's possible some were able to opt-out if they couldn't swim.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-12-04/news/0712030844_1_ivy-league-water-safety-physical-education


Short story: Some schools do have the requirement, but fewer and fewer do these days, for a variety of reasons. Many schools have developed myths about why the tests are in place (usually involving large financial gifts from the families of alumni who tragically drowned), but few if any actually arose in that manor.

I know the type very well, the kind of person who would have gone pro if it wasn't for that knee injury back in high school.

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

I'd agree.

I work at a pool and the majority of adults I'd class as non swimmers or close to it. Even the tiny 200m swim in the lifeguard course turns people off doing it, it's easy for us guys training 10+ hours a week to forget just how average the average Joe is.

I'm not FOP and people think I'm a freak going out and running for 2 hours, a 20k run doesn't seem much to me, but the average Joe thinks a 20k bike ride is long.

yeah total bs
everyone in my office thinks the commute ride I do (28 Km) is super long
they get winded going up the freaking staircase FFS

I started to reply to this earlier but deleted it, I just disagree. I have been transforming my life for the last 10 months +\-, and while I was (am😂) overweight, I was probably still above average on athletic ability. I'm hoping to enter Portland in August, and finishing is a goal. Yes, I'll be that fat guy walking part of the run, but, I'll be the fat guy trying to better myself. I did years in the Army, Infantry specifically, so I understand hard, but this sport is something we volunteer to do and call fun. With 6 months training, I'd venture to say less than 10% of Americans have the physical ability to complete it within the time limits, although probably half of them lack the mental aspect to finish. 3-4 hours on a bike, if they can manage the float/swim, will weed out the weak.

 

A 1.5 hr swim, 7 hr bike, 8 hr marathon sounds really easy though doesn't it?
But that sounds like somebody who has never hit the wall nor run a marathon. Once you hit it, that's it. Game over man.

I'm in year 4 of tri training and I'm not sure I'd make it. I'm not fast ofc, and train like 5-6hrs week. 1:30/100y base swim interval, 5k is 20:30 or so, mid-pack biker. One marathon under my belt (4:02 heh), and one 70.3 (hair over 6h)

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//Noob triathlete//bike commuter//ex-swimmer//slower than you

More than half of America think that Jesus rode a dinosaur or ten. There you have it.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Your times as stand alone are more decent than a lot who finish but your 70.3 time isn't flash.
I know a guy who swims 2m/100m or slower and runs 27 for 5k and he finished, weighs over 100kg too. Think he finished like one or two minutes before cutoff.

When I was 19 and started running I could not run longer than 1 km in one piece. So I think the average person can not run a significant distance when he has to cover 42 kilometers. He'll walk. An average walking speed (which he probably will not be able to keep up for 42 km) is 6 km/h. So he needs 7 hours.

An average cycling speed for most folks is 20 km/h at the maximum. Again, he would probably not continue that 180 km ( I'm not even talking about hills: the average person will not be able to climb).
So we have now a total of 16 hours.

Lets say for swimming and transition plus some stops he needs 3 hours.

Total 19 hours (as said, he will probably not manage that 19 hours).

So a bit of training will be necessary to get under the cutoff of 17 hours, in that he will be able to bike slightly faster or at least jog partly. And indeed I did not even talk about whether he'd be able to swim the 3,8 k.

Yep, these figures look about right to me for a member of the general public that doesn't participate in regular aerobic exercise of some sort.
I think people are massively misunderstanding one specific issue; the fact that 17hrs or continuous exertion, at any level, may well be beyond most people. A 20km/h bike pace is slow but it also makes the ride extremely long. 9hrs in the saddle is not tenable for people unaccustomed to long periods on a bike. Forget cramps or hitting the wall; saddle discomfort alone will knock out many,many untrained people who are attempting anywhere near an IM bike distance even without hills. Likewise, a 42km walk is a lot of time on your feet, and while most people could do it, few would. Even as individual events with no time cutoffs, each discipline would be an extremely tough test for most untrained people. Put them together in a single event and the only way you might think the majority can do it on no training is if you have a very mis-calibrated perception of "the majority".