Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Premier vs Canyon
Quote | Reply
My last tri was 2002 and I always told myself I would tri again after retirement. That Time is now here after being in law enforcement since '89.

Cycling has always been my strength and I am looking at the Premier Tactical (XS) and the Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0 DI2. I like the idea of the 650 on the XS Premier since my old P2 had them. I am rather short, 5'4"ish, so...

I will be starting with sprint tri's and some local time trials.

Is the Premier $1,150.00 better than the Canyon? I do really like Dan and what he has been doing for the sport and how helpful he is from what I have read.

Would love to hear from those who have experience with thes bikes.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 

There is a 'superbike shootout' thread some where here on Slowtwitch. Premier did well from what I remember and is well priced. If it fits I do not think that you can much better for the price.


.

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I own a Tactical with around 2000 miles on it. Raced IM Wisconsin on it qualified for Kona in the 75-79 age bracket. I looked at the speedmax slimular in a lot of the details but Tactical beats it in cost and value .......this is a great bike. Mine is small I am 5’6
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
First question as always is to make sure that whether of them can work for you from a fit standpoint. The Premier Tactical has quite a bit of adjustability - especially with the aerobars. I'm not quite as familiar with the Speedmax from a fit standpoint.

A few other 'extras' that the Tactical comes with versus the Canyon's Speedmax:
- A really nice bike case (mrsp $699 - a nice benefit if you plan on flying to any races or anywhere else you want to bring your bike)
- A Pioneer power meter (mrsp $799 I think - single sided but you can send it in and make a double sided meter)
- The ultra optimized chain (these usually run ~$100 depending on the company - saves a few watts over a traditional chain)

There are a few other key differences. The Tactical has a better integrated storage vs the Speedmax (the non-SLX versions don't have the spot for the flat kit in front of the seatpost). The Speedmax uses traditional vs premier using non-integrated brakes (the difference is mostly a personal preference. As for wheels....the DT Swiss ARC wheels that come on the Speedmax look nice and DT makes great rims and hubs. But having a rear disc is faster on race day.

If you were planning on getting a powermeter and case anyway, I think that really points the needle in favor to the Tactical. Both look like great bikes, and would both be on my short list if I was in the market.

Matt
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you for the thread and to those that have responded. If I can help answer any questions please feel free to contact me directly. Dan.premierbike@gmail.com

I just opened 650 molds on new 25 mm wide - 50, 88 front wheels and rear 50, 88 and disc.

The Tactical XS is packed with features: optimized chain, hard travel case, Shimano DI-2, ceramic bearing BB, power meter, ceramic bearing 11/15 pulley system, race wheels with Continental GP 4000II tires. And, all our customers a part of our Sponsored Athlete Program.

I hope to see you on a Tactical in 2018.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Feb 3, 18 12:55
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hands down the Premier! All the accessories, Dan's amazing responses and personal involvement, both here, but on FB as well. Not sure, but they used to offer $$ towards a bike fit. Seems Canyon isn't quite ready for the US yet IMO.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Then today is a very good day.

That's a lot of expense for a relatively small market, but I commend you for making the leap. I suspect I'll be taking some of those wheels off your hands in the coming year once they are shipping.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you and yes - I did not mention the bike fit. We use a static fit protocol to get you close. Then we pay up to $200.00 for a "dial in" fit with your local fitter or a fitter we can recommend if the athlete does not have one.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We should have inventory at the end of May.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Silly question, Tactical all the way!
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for all of the responses. I really appreciate it! Looks like an easy choice. Dan, thanks. I will be getting with you soon to order an XS.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am also 5'4" and would not bother with the hassle of a 650c bike, just not worth it: there are many bikes with 700c that will work fine.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jacked wrote:
My last tri was 2002 and I always told myself I would tri again after retirement. That Time is now here after being in law enforcement since '89.


Cycling has always been my strength and I am looking at the Premier Tactical (XS) and the Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0 DI2. I like the idea of the 650 on the XS Premier since my old P2 had them. I am rather short, 5'4"ish, so...

I will be starting with sprint tri's and some local time trials.

Is the Premier $1,150.00 better than the Canyon? I do really like Dan and what he has been doing for the sport and how helpful he is from what I have read.

Would love to hear from those who have experience with thes bikes.


Not a ton of people in the US with Canyon experience, seemingly a near illusion of a bike, though promised...they can't quite anty up and produce stock and get their act together. There are many other nice bikes out there aside from these two out there to look at. Try a bunch out, that's the best way. Some you THINK will be awesome, aren't. I thought the P4 was the Schizmo until I hopped on a P3, then I knew it was just better for me. Felt more comfortable, dependable and handled better on my test rides. I tried other brands and wasn't impressed with how they felt To say one is better, is something you should determine through test rides and your OWN research (like any issues other riders have had from manufacturing or usage breakdown). Since you've had Cervelo, look at others. 650's have gone by the wayside for the most part today. Here is a ST article that isn't that old...

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Small-wheel_Bikes_Let_s_Get_Down_To_It_6337.html


Good luck!
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Can I ask a question because you obviously give a lot of thought to everything on that bike and you otherwise sell....why not an aluminum brake track on the wheels?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We think our manufacturing partners have figured out rim braking. We have opened new molds on all our 650 and 700 wheels and our wheels will stop much better than most.

I’m not an expert on brake pads and brake track resin so I have been studying the topic and asking a lot of questions. I have decided to trust who I think are the most knowledgeable persons in those businesses.

I had given aluminum serious consideration. If you don’t mind silver brake surfaces it’s not hard – its heavy but not hard to get reasonable braking. If you are concerned about appearance its more difficult. We are concerned about both.

I spent hours preparing with our QC team in Taiwan and then hours discussing this topic with our manufacturers on this last trip - braking, brake pads, various surface etc. I had a very open and direct conversation with the largest pad company and the best brake manufacturing company in Taiwan. Both make disk and rim brakes and pads for every category in our industry.

To give you an idea of the expertise – the pad company manufactures 100,000 pads per day. They have 70 different compounds for the top manufacturers/private labelers and 10 standard compounds for re-sellers. The 60 are compounds developed with wheel manufacturers/private label marketers to fine tune performance (vibration, stopping power etc.) Every possible pad type, color, compound variation, tread pattern etc. has been tried and it comes down to heat.

I asked about black aluminum surfaces – there is a very costly process where very cold anodization process is used to hold color better and also create small surface irregularities to help with stopping power. Another technique is to add micro metal particles to brake surface resin to get more grab on carbon surfaces. But the bottom line was heat tolerance – eventually there is carbon to take into consideration.

The more Kevlar and Super Rubber you can add to the pad - the harder the pad and the better it will stop. Until it burns up the rim. You can get a carbon clinchers to stop equally in dry and within 1-2% in wet if the brake surface can take the heat. Not just the rim surface heat but inside where it’s +50 degrees hotter.

There is plenty of leverage to get the required force to stop – the issue is heat.

This is why good manufacturers say to use their pad. It’s been tested and fine-tuned to their wheels. If you use a high heat pads with a lower temp brake resin – you can make the wheel fail. If you use low heat resin and soft compounds you get another result. This is why marketing tests are easy to manipulate.

Materials are getting better and resins are catching up with pad compounds. If you develop a super high heat resin and super high heat pad your wheel will stop really good. This has not been easy but developments are being made. We decided to go in that direction.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Very informative. Thanks. I still can’t bring myself to buy carbon brake track but at least have me more to think about.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Feb 3, 18 19:38
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Premiere Tactical for you, thats just a really easy choice.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think the Premier is a great choice for the money, but sometimes you pick for a wow factor which is in my humble opinion the Canyon.
Both are great bikes. Pick the one you like and enjoy!

Team Zoot So Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Selecting the Premiere Tactical is a great choice.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tactical all the way. I love mine and Dan is super responsive (see LOVE THE PAIN thread for the antithesis of Dan's service) with not only issues (very few) but with general questions.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
before i put my money down on my tactical 2.0 i was strongly considering a speedmax cf slx.

i opted for the premier for a few key reasons...

1) we all know Dan's presence here and his customer service. to me good customer service is strong selling point for ANYTHING. if i can get in touch with someone when i need to for help i want to be able to, and the easier the better. i can message Dan here or on facebook and get a reply pretty dang quick, and that was BEFORE the purchase.

outside that, Dan gives unbiased opinions here on other manufacturers. He doesnt just pimp his own product. that i like too.

2) parts availability. ive read countless issues with Canyon's ability to not even fill orders, but to provide replacement parts for warranty issues and customer problems. that was a huge turnoff for me. on top of that, i had personally contacted canyon usa on three separate occasions and each time bike availability was pushed back and specs changed each time.

3) as others have mentioned, the shootout here on slowtwitch showed that the premiere was essentially just as fast as the fastest superbike in the world. at half the price, WITH a travel case, it (to me) makes it a no brainer. add to that the canyon has no published aero data anywhere to be found.

4) lets be honest here. the premier brand is new, and getting in on the ground floor of something new can come with its caveats. i spoke with a few premier owners from the 1.0 bikes and they all had nothing but glowing reviews of their bikes and their experience with the company. personal reviews go a long way for me, so this was a great sign.


i will say this. i think canyon's bikes are gorgeous. the lines are really nice and they just look good. they come with awesome wheel options. for my money though i chose a company with a real person behind the product and one that seemed to be very well trusted here and in the industry, not one that has been lucky enough to have their bikes ridden (on only one leg) of kona.

i havnt even received my bike yet and this is one of the most exciting purchases ive made in a long time.

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great post and I completely agree about the customer service. That is a huge selling point for me. Pretty certain I will be riding a premier tactical thi Summer!

Dan, although I used to ride a 650 Cervelo, I know they had basically disappeared in recent years. What is the advantage for me with riding 650? Also, are you still planning an aero road bike to add to the line up?

Thanks again for all the responses from everyone. It has been very helpful and informative.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dkennison wrote:
The more Kevlar and Super Rubber you can add to the pad - the harder the pad and the better it will stop. Until it burns up the rim. You can get a carbon clinchers to stop equally in dry and within 1-2% in wet if the brake surface can take the heat. Not just the rim surface heat but inside where it’s +50 degrees hotter.

There is plenty of leverage to get the required force to stop – the issue is heat.

This is why good manufacturers say to use their pad. It’s been tested and fine-tuned to their wheels. If you use a high heat pads with a lower temp brake resin – you can make the wheel fail. If you use low heat resin and soft compounds you get another result. This is why marketing tests are easy to manipulate.

Very interesting. Last year I melted the resin of my super light carbon climbing tubulars,* and still think that my brake pads must have been unsuitable for these rims, rather than that I was braking improperly (since I know well not to drag my brakes). At that time the wheel manufacturer made no recommendations for brake pad choice; at first I was running Zipp pads because I also have Zipp wheels, but these were being fried/eaten fast by the rims, and then I tried the Reynolds Blue when the issue happened... FWIW now this manufacturer recommends Black Prince pads.

*Actual failure mode on the rear wheel constituted the rim apparently becoming sufficiently soft that it popped a spoke completely, with a dramatic bang. I wasn't even braking at the precise moment. Unfortunately this happened during my title defence at GFNY Mont Ventoux. While the race neutral support changed my wheel within seconds, it was for a super strong and heavy 36 spoke special, which must have added 2 kg to my bike, and had an 11-25 instead of my 11-28 block – not ideal for what ended up being a mano-a-mano dual up the final 1600 vertical metre climb up Ventoux, ha ha! In the end I came 2nd to the other guy. Wouldacouldashoulda? Too many variables to judge...
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [jacked] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In my opinion the Premier looks like the old Canyon. And I loathe how the saddle looks on the post if you ride it somewhat steep
Quote Reply
Re: Premier vs Canyon [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Herbert wrote:
In my opinion the Premier looks like the old Canyon. And I loathe how the saddle looks on the post if you ride it somewhat steep

+1

I wanna go fast!
Quote Reply

Prev Next