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Power jumpiness with Powertap Joule vs Garmin vs SRM
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Yesterday I was doing some comparisons between an older wired SRM and a Garmin/Powertap. I switched from the SRM to the PT this year, and I wanted to see how accurate they were to each other. I noticed a couple interesting things.

1) SRM has no data averaging, but the readings were far more stable and directly reflected effort level (with no delay)
2) Powertap on 3s averaging still jumped up and down ~10 watts every second
3) Despite this, power was within 1 or 2 watts after warmup and re-calibration—especially above 200 watts

The quality of the data coming from the SRM is dramatically better. When I used the SRM's display to regulate my effort instead of the Powertap, it was much easier to maintain. You could also see this when viewing the graph after the fact—it was much smoother when I was looking at that instead of the Garmin or TrainerRoad.

I know they're different technologies, but since the ultimate power data is the same, this suggests that this is something that could be controlled by software. For a Powertap to display power the same way, it might be possible to calculate it. Instead of a running average, using past data (or assumed data), there could be a way to have a data display that's actually readable and useable, without having to resort to 3s (or unfortunately even higher) data averaging.

I read somewhere that the Joule computers have more stable displays with better data averaging, but nobody expanded on it any further. Has anyone done any comparisons between the Garmin-calculated data display and a Joule computer?

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George Dedopoulos | @geodee | geodee.com | Team Atomica | Toronto Triathlon Club
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Re: Power jumpiness with Powertap Joule vs Garmin vs SRM [geodee] [ In reply to ]
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The SRM power display is a little more stable because it looks and averages the power over each crank revolution. When you pedal the power has a large peak when either pedal is at 3 o'clock and goes down to zero around 6 o'clock. Even though the instantaneous power is highly varied through one revolution, the average power is fairly consistent so the numbers displayed, even without display averaging can be fairly steady.

The Powertap, on the other hand, isn't synchronized to the crank and it averages the power it sees over one second. Depending on how many power spikes it sees in one second the power over that period can be quite variable. Over a longer period, like a minute, the powertap and SRM should be the same (provided they are both calibrated). So the Powertap always requires more display averaging to smooth out the power.

Once you've been riding for a while you'll get used to the bouncy numbers and it shouldn't have any effect on the power you put out during an interval. You should be able to hold your power steady without staring at a powermeter just by feel. Take a look once in a while to make sure you're on track and make very small adjustments.

Not that it matters, but if I want to have a steady interval I just display the interval average and keep that at my target. I find it easier to hit a target with the powertap as the SRM won't keep the interval average displayed.
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Re: Power jumpiness with Powertap Joule vs Garmin vs SRM [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, that helps me to visualize it better now.

So at 30 km/h the wheel would rotate about 4 times per second, giving 4 samples, which are averaged and reported in 1 second increments. If your cadence is 90, that's 180 spikes per minute, or 3 per second. That's fairly predictable, and would probably not jump around too much. But if your cadence was say 85, then you'd have 2.8 spikes per sample. So some 1 second increments would include an extra spike and some wouldn't.

So essentially it's the nature of the beast, and changing head units won't solve anything. Thanks! Totally makes sense.

I've gotten better at using the Powertap, and I have been using longer averages and doing more by feel. I've adapted similarly to the way you explained. Instead of adjusting my output instantaneously as I was doing before, I'm looking at 30s averages or interval averages, and making smaller adjustments. It's probably a better long-term skill to develop too, I'm sure.

_____________________________________________________
George Dedopoulos | @geodee | geodee.com | Team Atomica | Toronto Triathlon Club
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Re: Power jumpiness with Powertap Joule vs Garmin vs SRM [geodee] [ In reply to ]
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I went from a wired powertap / LYC to a wireless powertap / Garmin 310XT. The jumpiness, even at 3SAVG is really annoying. If I'm trying to hold, say 250W, it'll bounce all around like 250/282/315/219/256/272/219/263/252. It's really annoying. I have to set the power display to AVGINTERVAL or AVG30s to get any real-time meaningful data. My LYC was smooth as butter (I think it had 5 or 7 seconds smoothing). I wonder if getting an Edge 510 will fix it (as it has more than 3 or 30 second AVG intervals), but I'm hesitant to spend any more money when the 310XT works "ok".
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