Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race

Nov 17, 05 12:30

Post #1 of 17 (1760 views)

just been thinking about my running times in triathlons after a disappointing run at the Miami man on Sunday.

It seems that by distance my triathlon runs are slower than running PRs by the following %ages:
10k - ~2%
13.1 - 24% (typically but a whopping 33% on sunday)
26.2 - 39% IMFL '04 23% Lake Placid '05

so how do your runs compare? My half runs are always way below par...something to fix for next year.

interesting side note, Heather Fuhr told me she doesn't think she could run a marathon faster than she does in IM....i guess that shows how optimally tuned she is for the IM race

-----------------------------------------------
www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 12:37

Post #2 of 17 (1741 views)

I am:

1' for 10k - so 2.5% (37:50 - 38:50 a ALT)

7% for Half IM

22% for IM

Obviously, my IM marathon needs work. In reality my long distance biking needs work.

Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 12:57

Post #3 of 17 (1708 views)

Great idea for a thread. Have only done Oly and haven't done a 10K in years, so based Jack Daniel's VDOT pace estimating system,..

10K - 4.5% (triathlon slower than optimal 10K)

What do coaches or other "experts" believe this figure should be?

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [Mike Ricci] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 13:03

Post #4 of 17 (1693 views)

since running is "supposed" to be my strength, how to improve the ratio??

is it:
a) Improve bike so less fatigued for run?
b) Improve run?
c) Improve running off bike specificity?
or (this is for Frank...)
d) Get some power cranks and improve bike and run at the same time? ;)

-----------------------------------------------
www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [JDub] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 13:25

Post #5 of 17 (1672 views)

I have read the standard % for OD is 7% which may be ok for MOP but for guys near the FOP more like 1-2%.

Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 13:27

Post #6 of 17 (1668 views)

A) yes

B) no

C) not really

D) haa haa, no

E) improve your swim fitness, you will be less fatigued on the run. You may laugh, but I have seen lots of guys/gals pump up the volume on the swim and they run better. Myself included.

So, A and E. :-)

Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [Mike Ricci] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 13:55

Post #7 of 17 (1635 views)

interesting, do you think the benefit of adding swim fitness improved race day run by:

a) being less tired getting out of the water on race day?

OR

b) the improved overall general fitness derived from the greater swim fitness?

-----------------------------------------------
www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 14:08

Post #8 of 17 (1621 views)

Adding swim volume will increase your aerobic capacity without pounding our joints (ie running). That is a benefit in my opinion.

So - a) - YES - being less tired coming out of the water and

b) - YES - as mentioned above AND

c) - getting out of the water in the front of the pack and not having to hammer through the field and play catch up the whole race. That wears on you more than people think.

If you have the leaders in sight after the swim, and you are a good runner, you have simplified your race considerably.

Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 14:17

Post #9 of 17 (1604 views)

Surprisingly.. I'm way faster on most of the distance off the bike than on an open race. Maybe it's because I always start too fast on open road races and usually blow up at half point.

Some times to compare:

5Km - 16'50 (off the bike) vs 16'14 (on the track WITH track shoes)

10Km - 33'40 (off the bike) vs 34'3x (open road race)

20Km - 1h17 (off the bike) vs 1h18 (open road race)

http://twitter.com/krepster || http://www.pedro-gomes.com || follow all the action on facebook

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 14:25

Post #10 of 17 (1586 views)

10K: 36:40 v. 37-something in a tri. (but the course was way short) More like 39 is typical so ... 6-7 % slower. Finished dozens of both races.

1/2: 1:21 v. 1:35 in my only HIM so ... 11-12 % slower.

Success to me would be 3 % slower in an oly and 5-6 % slower in HIM.

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [Mike Ricci] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 14:52

Post #11 of 17 (1548 views)

Mike, not to hijack this but what about HIM vs IM bike times? Is there any way to guess an IM bike time from HIM bike time?

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [5280] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 15:02

Post #12 of 17 (1538 views)

There is a lot that goes into that - starting with how hard did you have to work on the swim? If everything is equal on the swim (fitness is solid) now you go to the next factors which is how well are you trained, and then nutrition and pacing. So IF ALL of that is equal, you still have the issue of Muscular Endurance - but I have seen guys 'double' their times and run fine off the bike, and I have seen some literature that says double the time and add 20-30 minutes. I have seen that double + 20-30 minutes to be pretty typical.

Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [TB in MT] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 15:11

Post #13 of 17 (1525 views)

You're lucky. My 1/2 time is 1:30 even. At the last 1/2 Iron I did it was 2:18. There were other factors involved (mainly heat, hawai'i vs seattle). It's been a couple of years but I have whittled the differences down in the shorter races likely due to increased bike training. Maybe 2:00 on a 5k (20 tri vs 18 open road race).

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 17:18

Post #14 of 17 (1477 views)

I did Miami Man last week too. I think you also might consider the bike course/effort when factoring running pace into the equation. We both know the 20 - 30 mph winds & heat took a toll on the legs during the bike. Example, I should have held 6:30 pace (based off prior performance) and I could only muster 7:37pace...

So I guess it depends on how hard you worked on the bike.

PS Miamiman.. That was an EPIC race... loved every minute of it... I've memories to keep me warm (current Ann Arbor Mi temp 23f).

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [Mike Ricci] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 17:21

Post #15 of 17 (1473 views)

"""""E) improve your swim fitness, you will be less fatigued on the run. You may laugh, but I have seen lots of guys/gals pump up the volume on the swim and they run better. Myself included"""""""

Don't let therascal see this thread. He'll go ballistic again. Here is a link to a thread debating that very subject.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...earch_string;#613110

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [pbashfor] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 17:25

Post #16 of 17 (1464 views)

Your run times will usually be slower for several reasons.

A non inclusive list would include peripheral fatigue, muscle tissue tramua, dehydration, lowered blood sugar if not properly eating, lack of running fatigue resistance, lack of cycling fitness.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Last edited by: desert dude: Nov 17, 05 17:26

Re: Poll: Tri running performance vs Open Road Race [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 05 18:21

Post #17 of 17 (1439 views)

Brian - I just checked it out - he has an opinion on it all right! A strong one at that.

Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

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