Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks

Jun 12, 17 20:34

Post #1 of 18 (2500 views)

Was hoping to get some advice from others that go strictly off of RPE for their races.

I completed Eagleman yesterday and had a really good day. I was almost exactly where I thought I was going to be for all 3 disciplines but now I am wondering if I short changed myself. My run went particularly well for what I thought I could do and felt really strong throughout the entire thing. So now I am questioning whether I went to easy on the bike.

How do you guys pace your rides for 70.3 races? This race is very very different than my normal training rides so just going based off of those doesn't really help. Do you try to do a few rides on roads that are similar to the course to figure out speed and RPE? Do you just go by the feeling in your legs?

What are some markers you use to figure out if you under-biked?
What do you consider the correct run pacing for this distance? Should you try to negative split the first to the 2nd half of the run? Negative split the entire race?

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 12, 17 22:37

Post #2 of 18 (2467 views)

FuzzyRunner wrote:

Was hoping to get some advice from others that go strictly off of RPE for their races.

I completed Eagleman yesterday and had a really good day. I was almost exactly where I thought I was going to be for all 3 disciplines but now I am wondering if I short changed myself. My run went particularly well for what I thought I could do and felt really strong throughout the entire thing. So now I am questioning whether I went to easy on the bike.

How do you guys pace your rides for 70.3 races? This race is very very different than my normal training rides so just going based off of those doesn't really help. Do you try to do a few rides on roads that are similar to the course to figure out speed and RPE? Do you just go by the feeling in your legs?

What are some markers you use to figure out if you under-biked?
What do you consider the correct run pacing for this distance? Should you try to negative split the first to the 2nd half of the run? Negative split the entire race?

Yeah, that is the Million Dollar Question, isn't it?

Best I can say is that it is better to underbike than to overbike.

Other than that, Yes, it takes a lot of experience (and race simulation workouts) to get it right..

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 2:46

Post #3 of 18 (2429 views)

There are only a few races that I felt I may have under-biked and that was only by a few minutes but I also have a power meter.

On those races I ran exceptionally well for my abilities at the time.

If you ran within a few minutes of what your current fitness predicts then you did not under-bike. (5-7 min slower than recent HM PR)
If you ran near your PR for a stand alone Half then you may have under-bike but likely only by a few minutes.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 6:18

Post #4 of 18 (2354 views)

I don't have an open half marry time to base off of actually. I did a 10 miler the weekend before but that wasn't really in ideal conditions since I was just doing it with a friend and cared more about the HIM then that race so no real taper or prep for the race.

Honestly, the reason I think I may have underbiked was because I was able to negative split the race. From mile 3 through the finish, each mile was faster than the previous and the last mile was about 2 minutes faster than mile 3.

Now if I'm looking at only being 5-7 minutes slower than a HM PR then I might be right where I need to be. I assume my true half marathon pace would be about 10-12 minutes faster than what I ran on Sunday. I guess I could have also biked correctly but held too much back on the run.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 6:21

Post #5 of 18 (2350 views)

Yea I know it really is a hard question to answer. Do you have any guidelines for the run you aim for? ie 2nd half faster than the first, first 3 miles easy then ramp up into true race pace and hold for as long as possible, etc.

That is for sure. 100% happy that I felt great during the run compared to what could have went down.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 7:52

Post #6 of 18 (2318 views)

FuzzyRunner wrote:

From mile 3 through the finish, each mile was faster than the previous and the last mile was about 2 minutes faster than mile 3.

You started your run too easy. Regardless of whether you biked too hard or not.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [Khilgendorf] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 8:22

Post #7 of 18 (2293 views)

I don't use power, HR, or cadence. My perspective is you have to ride the bike hard in a 70.3. The people I talk to that are disappointed in their 70.3 times are often so because they stuck to a conservative wattage plan, vs racing to the conditions or by feel. 70.3 biking is not too different from Olympic biking these days in the younger age groups.

If you can still run within 10% of your open HM time, then you can still probably ride harder.

Last edited by: milkman1982: Jun 13, 17 8:24

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 9:31

Post #8 of 18 (2234 views)

milkman1982 wrote:

I don't use power, HR, or cadence. My perspective is you have to ride the bike hard in a 70.3. The people I talk to that are disappointed in their 70.3 times are often so because they stuck to a conservative wattage plan, vs racing to the conditions or by feel. 70.3 biking is not too different from Olympic biking these days in the younger age groups.

If you can still run within 10% of your open HM time, then you can still probably ride harder.

I respectfully disagree. 10% of a 90 minutes run is 9 minutes and that's way too much.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [Khilgendorf] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 9:46

Post #9 of 18 (2223 views)

Yea I'm starting to think this instead of that my bike was to hard. Definitely was worried about the heat so I must have just taken the beginning of the run to easy.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 9:52

Post #10 of 18 (2213 views)

Yea, I think it'll just take more races and more time on the bike. I've only been really riding for this summer and last summer so I'm still getting a feel for bike pacing etc.

I definitely know my run pacing and ability better than biking but when adding both together things start to get off base for me.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 10:02

Post #11 of 18 (2203 views)

Just my .02.......

I did a few HIM's before I got a PM. THE most interesting thing, to me, that my PM told me....from the beginning....is how much power I was using to go uphill. It was astonishing.

Granted.....I'm a little over 190#'s. But, it was still unbelievable.

I know how I ride, now.......and how I used to ride (using RPE and HR). They are not similar. If you've never ridden with a PM and you ride on hills of any size, you can't understand what I'm telling you.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 10:10

Post #12 of 18 (2195 views)

With the additional info you gave, it still could be that you are just in really good Run shape and need to work on the bike....

As in, if you are not used to Run by RPE, you normally take out the Run too hard and then fade (depending on run shape).

Again, don't kill yourself over it, revel in the great Run experience (not too many have those ;-) and bike harder your next race.

FuzzyRunner wrote:

Yea, I think it'll just take more races and more time on the bike. I've only been really riding for this summer and last summer so I'm still getting a feel for bike pacing etc.

I definitely know my run pacing and ability better than biking but when adding both together things start to get off base for me.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 12:08

Post #13 of 18 (2144 views)

I still think I'm in the beginner stages of my riding so always have work to do.

haha oh I am extremely happy with the run but always looking to improve and optimize. I'm doing IM Canada in July so just trying to make sure things are dialed in before that gets here.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [nc452010] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 12:12

Post #14 of 18 (2139 views)

Yea all I train on is hills. My training rides are usually just under 100ft of gain per 10 miles so doing Eagleman is a completely different type of riding to what I'm used to doing. Haha There is probably more gain biking out of my driveway than the entire eagleman course.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 12:18

Post #15 of 18 (2128 views)

I have been doing tris since '81. I always over biked races until I got a power meter. Although I am sure a HRM would work too.
It is difficult to judge correctly your effort at the beginning of the bike. Yes, many do it well. Not I.

Team Zoot So Cal

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 12:32

Post #16 of 18 (2114 views)

jaretj wrote:

milkman1982 wrote:

I don't use power, HR, or cadence. My perspective is you have to ride the bike hard in a 70.3. The people I talk to that are disappointed in their 70.3 times are often so because they stuck to a conservative wattage plan, vs racing to the conditions or by feel. 70.3 biking is not too different from Olympic biking these days in the younger age groups.

If you can still run within 10% of your open HM time, then you can still probably ride harder.

I respectfully disagree. 10% of a 90 minutes run is 9 minutes and that's way too much.

maybe 10% is too wide a band, i will give you that. I run a 1:26 open and historically run a 1:33-1:35 OTB. When looking back at those races though, I find it hard to fathom that I would run 2-3 minutes faster if I biked even 1 minute slower. I don't see a situation (for me at least) where there is a multiplier effect, ex: saving more minutes on the run than you lose on the bike. I could also be overestimating how hard I am biking to my fitness level, but gosh I am trying my best to bike my ass off.

My strategy to improve the OTB run for this season has been to simply run more and have more run fitness coming into the season, vs buying yet another gadget. Will know next week if it worked I guess when I kick off my season at CDA.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [nc452010] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 12:46

Post #17 of 18 (2101 views)

nc452010 wrote:

I did a few HIM's before I got a PM. THE most interesting thing, to me, that my PM told me....from the beginning....is how much power I was using to go uphill. It was astonishing.

This is my first year with a PM and I agree, I learned pretty quickly how much I was overworking the hills. I also learned however how much I was backing off on the downhills and flats. My PM has tough me how hard a .8 to .85 IF really is. I rode a .82 half this weekend and ran well off the bike, but at .82 I felt like I was pushing really hard the entire bike leg. Much harder than I had pushed without a PM, but having done race simulations at that pace in training I was confident I would keep it together on the run.

Re: Pacing 70.3 for my RPE folks [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 13:33

Post #18 of 18 (2080 views)

TennesseeJed wrote:

nc452010 wrote:

I did a few HIM's before I got a PM. THE most interesting thing, to me, that my PM told me....from the beginning....is how much power I was using to go uphill. It was astonishing.

This is my first year with a PM and I agree, I learned pretty quickly how much I was overworking the hills. I also learned however how much I was backing off on the downhills and flats. My PM has tough me how hard a .8 to .85 IF really is. I rode a .82 half this weekend and ran well off the bike, but at .82 I felt like I was pushing really hard the entire bike leg. Much harder than I had pushed without a PM, but having done race simulations at that pace in training I was confident I would keep it together on the run.

Same experience for me. I did a lot of group rides before I got my PM and every hill was an attack. When I would ride alone/race I would attack hills the same way. As soon as I got a PM I realized that the way I rode hills was trashing my legs. Great for training...not so good for racing triathlon. The opposite was true for the flats. I was pushing far fewer watts than I expected and had to really work for the watts I should have been riding at.

I have great respect for people who race by RPE. For me, it is harder than combining data elements to paint the full picture (RPE, HR, Power, Wind, Temp etc.). However, I often wonder if people sabotage themselves when they aren't as in tune to their RPE as they think they are. I know that adrenaline does crazy things to me and what feels like soft pedaling during a race is actually threshold watts.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.