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Outdoor winter running
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Over the past few years I have doing most of my winter running indoors at our local gym track. Its getting colder up here in Chicago. This year I was thinking I would try to stay out doors when I can.

Any tips on best products to wear? I'm not sure how great it is to breath in super cold air. What do you northerns do?

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Shoe traction is important too. I made a pair of running spikes out of an old pair of running shoes. See http://running.competitor.com/...running-spikes_91843 for simple instructions.

Also, if you think it's cold now in Chicago, just wait a few more months ...
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Just about anything that covers your mouth and basically pre-warms the air. A bandanna would work, as would a neck gaiter or a balaclava. As a race premium, I received one sort of like this (but not the same brand):

https://www.amazon.com/Tough-Headwear-Balaclava-Gaiter-Windproof/dp/B01LE04OXI/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1508432761&sr=8-11&keywords=neck+gaiter
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I used to run outdoors until it would get below zero F (before I moved south!).
Get decent moisture wicking thermal underwear (top and bottoms) and some sort of breathable wind suit (used to be gore-tex back in the day).
Decent hat and gloves and head out. Basically suck it up buttercup. Once your body warms from the effort it's no big deal.
If it was below 10-15F I would use a ski mask type of hat that covered my mouth. But the cold air never seemed that big of a deal.
You'll soon learn what the temp and wind conditions are what you'll need on and left off for the day - to stay warm enuff or too warm and too much sweat given that days conditions.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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What Mac said.

I lived and trained in Northern Colorado for 10 years before moving back to Texas.

Running is easy. On the legs I wore cycling tights. For the torso was two layers: long sleeve running shirt + a long sleeve cycling jersey either a medium (above 25F) or heavy weight (below 25F). I had/have a running wind breaker (with a breathable vent across the shoulder blades)...even in the cold you need good ventilation. If I warmed up too much I could shed the cycling jersey.

for the head, most of the time I only needed an ear warmer (and no hat), and often just a lycra version until it got down towards 20F. Typically, I would switch to a fleece one at that point. Maybe a hat if it was breezy and cold. But, usually I found the hat held too much heat in. Once the temp started heading towards 10F, I might need a neoprene ski mask. But, not typical.

And, yeah...suck it up, Buttercup.

I also commuted to work on my bike year round....uphill both ways, in the wind, snow, ice, thunder, hail, and tornados. Surely you can handle a little ole run. :-)
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Re: Outdoor winter running [sprimack] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks - yeah its not cold now - I've lived here 25 years. I didn't think about traction as much as is was concerned about the cold air in my lungs.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Oct 19, 17 10:54
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Have run in as low as -58 wind chill and lungs have never been an issue for me. The layered approach to dressing is key. An outer layer of wind block is the most valuable item we "yankees" possess.

Gary Geiger
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I've said it before; I'll say it again. "When acid rain freezes, you get acid snow"

Or, in South Jersey you get acid slush with rocks and sand and gravel and shoes and needles and underwear and all sorts of other sh!t in it. When it dries out, the slush is gone, but all that other crap is still out there, usually migrating onto the part of the road I'm using.

But I digress ...

Winter Training is especially Badass, and Outdoors is doubly so, but there are couple things to keep in mind

You want to see and be seen as best as possible. I run with a reflective vest, safety neon shirt if it's warm enough, reflective gloves, and a red clip-on strobe in back. I have LED headllamp to light the way up front. If you're on the road, run FACING traffic so you can see the headlights long before they see you and NEVER EVER wear headphones ... if "NO headphones" is a deal-breaker? Get back on the treadmill
As important as traction is, remember this: Dry = Warm, ESPECIALLY your feet. Everyone says you lose a lot of heat off your head, so wear a hat BUT, if you accidentally step in a puddle, and your feet get wet? A cold noggin will be the least of your worries. You'll get home & shower and dry your hair and that will be fine; but cold damp feet just seem to linger and make you miserable HOURS afterwards. If there is any dampness outside, I put on my socks, slip some bread bags over them then put my shoes over those ... function > fashion, here

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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50F and up--Tshirt and shorts, suck it up.
40-49F--long sleeve, light gloves, lightweight tights, midweight socks. Lightweight skull cap.
30-39--Good wicking under layers. I like the zip turtlenecks by Under Armor. Tights, maybe mid weight. Smartwool socks, Balaclava, midweight gloves. Goretex windbreaker type jacket.
15-29--balaclava, hat over balaclava, eye protection (wrap around glasses, goggles if windy). Turtleneck wicking layer, fleece vest, wind jacket. Mittens. Underwear with wind shield layer (frostbite of the penis is painful) mid to heavy weight tights, smartwool heavy socks.
<14--screw it, the treadmill is not that bad.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [roubaixman] [ In reply to ]
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roubaixman wrote:
50F and up--Tshirt and shorts, suck it up.
40-49F--long sleeve, light gloves, lightweight tights, midweight socks. Lightweight skull cap.
30-39--Good wicking under layers. I like the zip turtlenecks by Under Armor. Tights, maybe mid weight. Smartwool socks, Balaclava, midweight gloves. Goretex windbreaker type jacket.
15-29--balaclava, hat over balaclava, eye protection (wrap around glasses, goggles if windy). Turtleneck wicking layer, fleece vest, wind jacket. Mittens. Underwear with wind shield layer (frostbite of the penis is painful) mid to heavy weight tights, smartwool heavy socks.
<14--screw it, the treadmill is not that bad.

This is pretty good, I normally don't add gloves or toque until closer to 32, would never wear both a balaclava and toque at the same time, always wear sunglasses and the same midweight socks. Also yes the treadmill is that bad I'm good outside down to well below 0F.

Others mentioned traffic, I mostly run on multi use trails that are well maintained so just use the same running shoes year round, pay attention to where you are running and you may be fine without any shoe changes.

Ben
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Re: Outdoor winter running [abies] [ In reply to ]
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They don't sell the exact one I wear anymore (it was called the Animagi) but I'm a big fan of this style of jacket:

https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/mens-jackets-vests-running-training/mens-flight-touji-jacket-nf0a2v55?variationId=D7Q


It's very lightly insulated, but I love it through the upper 20s and 30s. It's not 'warm' per se, but it keeps me at a good temperature while I'm exerting.

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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For cold, it's a lot of trial and error. A nice balaclava that is convertible is nice when the head gets hot. A well vented vest is nice when it's breezy but dry. I found the biggest deal is staying warm while the engine heats up, then it's staying warm while the engine is sweating.

For tractions, I've used these studs for a few years. They provide such amazing traction on ice that I don't even have to change my gate. For lots of snow, the other Yaktrax work well, but are more clunky underfoot.

For feet, the OutDry shoes from Columbia/Montrail are amazing. Splashing through puddles or on muddy trail runs, my feet stay dry without getting swampy. The waterproofing is outstanding.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour
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Re: Outdoor winter running [roubaixman] [ In reply to ]
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roubaixman wrote:
50F and up--Tshirt and shorts, suck it up.
40-49F--long sleeve, light gloves, lightweight tights, midweight socks. Lightweight skull cap.
30-39--Good wicking under layers. I like the zip turtlenecks by Under Armor. Tights, maybe mid weight. Smartwool socks, Balaclava, midweight gloves. Goretex windbreaker type jacket.
15-29--balaclava, hat over balaclava, eye protection (wrap around glasses, goggles if windy). Turtleneck wicking layer, fleece vest, wind jacket. Mittens. Underwear with wind shield layer (frostbite of the penis is painful) mid to heavy weight tights, smartwool heavy socks.
<14--screw it, the treadmill is not that bad.

This is nuts. I grew up in Chicago.

Shorts and a T for anything above 30, though you can add gloves and armsleeves if it's chilly.

20-30 for me is gloves and armsleeves.

Below 20 and I'll add a beanie hat and maybe more upper body layers.

Never have I ever worn pants or tights on a run.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
Thanks - yeah its not cold now - I've lived here 25 years. I didn't think about traction as much as is was concerned about the cold air in my lungs.

Cold air can’t be too bad for you, those XC skiers do ok. It helps to continuously exercise outside as the temperature drops, so you can acclimate. The only time I had trouble with my throat in the cold is when I flew from 40F to -5F.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I have a thin Buff neck warmer I use for winter running. Light enough such that it doesn't get uncomfortable around the neck if it warms up mid run and thin enough to pull over the face and breath through.

I use them cycling, running, climbing, skiing, etc.

https://www.rei.com/product/691367/
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Re: Outdoor winter running [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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That looks like a great solution.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I have something similar to this for really cold, http://redrockoutdoorgear.com/full-face-mask/ I had to enlarge the holes around the mouth a bit for running to improve air flow. I have not found weather too cold for that.

Bun in normal cold weather a balaclava is fine. Once you get moving pretty much everything warms up.

There is nothing cooler than a trail run when it is snowing hard. Or a clear night time run with snow on the ground.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [sprimack] [ In reply to ]
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sprimack wrote:
Shoe traction is important too. I made a pair of running spikes out of an old pair of running shoes. See http://running.competitor.com/...running-spikes_91843 for simple instructions.

Also, if you think it's cold now in Chicago, just wait a few more months ...

Feeling everyone's pain here in Minneapolis. I actually enjoy these mornings where it is mid 30's to mid 40's; but inevitably, it will get ugly. I use three different weights of jacket with Nike's shield max warm being the heaviest. Regarding shoes, Saucony makes a great shoe for winter running with a sole material that does a decent job of grabbing the ice (Vibram arctic grip). Another bonus is that it's only a 4mm drop and is relatively light coming in under 10 oz. Being a Kinvara fan, it works really well!

Good luck and stay warm!
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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If you're talking really cold (-30C), get merino base layers and socks. This makes an enormous difference in comfort. Seriously, it's expensive, but don't screw around with cheap stuff when it's that cold. It's worth the investment. Merino socks, bottom (legs) base layer with running tights or windstop pants overtop, top (shirt) base layer, thin fleece or 2nd layer that still fits close, and then a windbreaking layer if it's really cold. I use a Buff to cover my neck, face, and ears, and I wear a thin running toque. Sunglasses always to cut the glare off the snow, and protect the eyes from wind/freezing rain/snow. Thin running gloves are usually enough, sometimes I'll wear cold-weather cycling gloves if it's really cold out. I got sick of my yaktracks spikes coming off, and ran all last year in Salomon Speedcross (waterproof version) without added spikes. Dressed like this, I can run comfortably all winter.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan,

I ran through 30+ winters here in Canada. 20 years in the Toronto area and 10 in Vancouver. You can run in pretty much anything outdoors in the winter.

The lower threshold for temperatures is about -25C. But wind is a big factor - if it's super windy a -15C day can be just as bad.

For footing - they never had the funky trail running shoes that they do now when I was training seriously. I just used regular runners, but a shoe like the old Nike Pegasus with it's lugged waffle outsole was perfect!

Layers are key starting with a great base layer and you just build out from there based on the conditions.

I found the rain in Vancouver, sometimes more challenging - running in the rain at 2C is hard. It's important to keep the body core temp up when you are wet. Ounce you start to get chilled, it's game-over quickly.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Outdoor winter running [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Steve. There is a limit to my running determination:-) Cold and Wet - I'm out. Below zero -I'm out.

Its not bad in Chicago most winter days. I think a mouth covering and judicious use of layers should work. I tried it last year and got hot fast - so maybe just endure the initial cold until I warm up and don't go to heavy on the layers.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: Outdoor winter running [roubaixman] [ In reply to ]
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roubaixman wrote:
50F and up--Tshirt and shorts, suck it up.
40-49F--long sleeve, light gloves, lightweight tights, midweight socks. Lightweight skull cap.
30-39--Good wicking under layers. I like the zip turtlenecks by Under Armor. Tights, maybe mid weight. Smartwool socks, Balaclava, midweight gloves. Goretex windbreaker type jacket.
15-29--balaclava, hat over balaclava, eye protection (wrap around glasses, goggles if windy). Turtleneck wicking layer, fleece vest, wind jacket. Mittens. Underwear with wind shield layer (frostbite of the penis is painful) mid to heavy weight tights, smartwool heavy socks.
<14--screw it, the treadmill is not that bad.

Ugh! Way too much for me. Subtract 10F, AT LEAST, from all of those, and you're getting closer. No way I'm wearing a balaclava in the 30s. I wouldn't even wear a HAT in that temp range---just a lycra ear band.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I love to run outside in the winter. One of the greatest simple pleasures in life is being the first person to put down tracks in fresh snow. The cold is like the heat-- if you ease into it, it is easier to handle. Don't make the mistake of overdressing. If you get sweaty and take layers off, you will get much colder than if you don't let yourself get sweaty. I have tried yak tracks and other things for traction, but I have found that trail running shoes give good traction and are easy to run in.
Have fun.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
Thanks Steve. There is a limit to my running determination:-) Cold and Wet - I'm out. Below zero -I'm out.

Its not bad in Chicago most winter days. I think a mouth covering and judicious use of layers should work. I tried it last year and got hot fast - so maybe just endure the initial cold until I warm up and don't go to heavy on the layers.

Coldest runs I've done were about -34C, for about half an hour each. Fleece toque, balaclava, three layers on top (short sleeve wicking shirt, thermal top, windbreaker jacket), gloves, shorts, tights, windbreaker pants, wool socks, and running shoes. The hard part is getting rid of moisture because that is what conducts the heat (and cold...) This is why feet-in-bags are not necessarily a good idea.

Above about -15 this combination gets too warm and I have to start ditching stuff. +1 to headlamp / taillamp and reflective shoes/gloves/jacket, and to run facing traffic. Even if there are streetlights, a runner without these items is essentially invisible until the driver has no decision time left.

Less is more.
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Re: Outdoor winter running [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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Karl.n wrote:
dkennison wrote:
Thanks - yeah its not cold now - I've lived here 25 years. I didn't think about traction as much as is was concerned about the cold air in my lungs.

Cold air can’t be too bad for you, those XC skiers do ok. It helps to continuously exercise outside as the temperature drops, so you can acclimate. The only time I had trouble with my throat in the cold is when I flew from 40F to -5F.
I should have read everything before my last post. I wear almost identical clothing when I run in the winter as when I cross country ski at the same temp. Much of the clothes, like my tights and shirts, do double duty between the two activities.
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