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Open Letter to PowerCranks
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Dear Powercranks:


Well I got my new Powercranks yesterday. That was fast. I ordered them on
Sunday. I wasn't too impressed at first. Another thousand dollar toy...
a bit of a gimmick, a bit of a laugh... I had used them on my friends
bikes and at expos. I knew what they were and frankly (no pun intended to
Frank Day) doubted how useful they would be. Still I got them to make my
friends happy and shut people up who told me that they would be the
greatest tool I ever owned.

Now you must understand a little background. I am not easily impressed
with cycling stuff because I think I have seen it all. I have been a
cyclist for 20 years now and since 1987 I have been following all of the
technology and performance wisdom. During that time I have owned (what
feels like) over 100 top-end bikes ridden countless hours of training and
racing. I have spent at least $50k+ on equipment and talked with hundreds
of people. I have had $400 fit sessions and even discussed my position
with experts like John Cobb and Olympic contenders.

When it came to powercranks I had my opinions and they were NOT something
I needed. Yes I had tried them and I failed after a minute of use but
that was on other people's bikes. I was sure if they were on my bike and
I had my position things would be different. No, I didn't need
Powercranks. I was above that gimmick.

Powercranks (in my mind) were for desperate people with no clue how to
pedal. As a result of my super position and many miles of adaptation I
KNEW I was a great pedaler and I KNEW I was in the correct position.
Hell, how could I have not been!!??? I paid $400 bucks for a fit session
and my spinscan proved how great I was. Powercranks would just do one
thing... hurt my hamstrings. Those things are an injury waiting to happen
I would tell my friends. They ignore your quads! Oh how right I was...
but not like I thought.

Here's a little background on my hamstrings. I am also a runner. I have
been running as long as I have been cycling and like most runners I have
tight hamstrings. You see my hamstrings were something I always thought
about because they hurt a lot. To compensate for this I really paid
attention to saddle height. I thought I KNEW my proper seat height. I
had not a single doubt I was getting the best position (saddle-height
wise). Well it turns out that I was wrong and it wasn't until last night
when I finally figured it out.

How? How you ask did I conclude that I was incorrect when I was so sure I
was right for all this time? The answer is simple. Powercranks. It took
me under twenty seconds to know. I also have a pretty good idea that my
left leg is shorter than my right leg too! No, I didn't go to a doctor
and get x-rayed. All I did was use Powercranks on my bike for around 20
seconds.

You see the first thing I did was get on my saddle and clip both feet in
to my pedals which were hanging together in the six o'clock position.
This immediately made me laugh. I felt so stupid being in a position that
I had never been in on a bike. Then I noticed something. Those pedals
were really far down there and I barely reached them. No matter I thought
I have the proper seat-height.

Then I leaned forward to my aerobars and my hamstrings both felt like they
were being pulled. I still insisted (in my mind) that this was the
correct height. Why would I ever doubt myself? As I said before I had
been through FIST performance fittings and even talked with John Cobb....
my results also were pretty good on that set-up (362 watts for a 40k)....
I started pedaling and then all hell broke lose with my right hamstring
forcing me to stop.

I lower my saddle 1-2cm thinking that this was surely going to be too
much. Again I had the same experience as the first time... this time it
was less painful but still I could tell not quite as low as I needed. I
lowered the saddle another half centimeter and it felt fine.

I realized something in that moment. I now understood that I was fighting
my bike and tearing my hamstrings all at once. I was probably rocking my
hips back and forth so I could extend my legs (maybe that's what caused
those saddle sores) and losing major efficiency to do it.

In 20 seconds my new powercranks had become the best fit tool I had ever
used. It was also obvious that if I sat on the seat (squarely) my left
leg didn't reach the pedal the same way my right one did. Maybe this is
why I could only sit on the left hand side of my seat and why that area
had become a major source of pain.

In the future I will look forward to using my adjustable powercranks to
see if two different crank arms would help me. I will keep you updated on
my progress but I thought I would share day one.
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty funny. I couldn't make up shit like this even if I tried really hard.
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Paulo

I think you put it best here.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAwC-f1mhy8
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Dear Powercranks:

Now you must understand a little background. I am not easily impressed
with cycling stuff because I think I have seen it all. I have been a
cyclist for 20 years now and since 1987 I have been following all of the
technology and performance wisdom. During that time I have owned (what
feels like) over 100 top-end bikes ridden countless hours of training and
racing. I have spent at least $50k+ on equipment and talked with hundreds
of people. I have had $400 fit sessions and even discussed my position
with experts like John Cobb and Olympic contenders.

I paid $400 bucks for a fit session
and my spinscan proved how great I was.

my results also were pretty good on that set-up (362 watts for a 40k)....
I started pedaling and then all hell broke lose with my right hamstring
forcing me to stop.

You've really gone through 5 bikes per year for 20 years? What the heck for?

You really think SpinScan (TM) shows anything useful?

You really held 362W for 40km? Did you go under 53:00?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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Great write up. Keep the data coming.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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Allowing your feet to hang down w/o pedaling told you nothing about your saddle height while pedaling. Based solely on that, you made an ill-informed adjustment. You saddle height is probably too low now. How often do you hear that on ST?!

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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You buy powercranks to learn your saddle is too high???? Wouldn't it have been much cheaper to just post a picture of your position?
.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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Quick observation. I have used PC for about three and a half years. For about two of those years I rode only PCs. When I went back to splitting time with normal crankarms, I found an interesting thing. My seat position on regular cranks felt too low. I tried to get used to it but finally gave up and raised the saddle about 5mm. My supposition is that you sit lower in the saddle using PCs because every ouce of your weight is supported by the saddle. And yes, they will quickly expose whether or not one leg is weaker than the other.
Chad
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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I concur with your experience. Using PC made me quickly realize that with my superbikefitted saddle height was overextending my legs and that I could not achieve efficient full rotation in that position. I slid my saddle down by 1.5 cm and I am still working on it.
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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Peter, good luck on your journey. I'm on my 4th year since starting using PC's. My saddle is also somewhat lower than when I started (around 7.5mm), and as Chad said, part of this is because when you pedal PC style, lots of your weight is supported by the saddle instead of the legs, so you "sink lower"....but as you mentioned, do watch those tight hamstrings. I'm not saying that PC's will make them tighter (it is all individual), but as you start riding PC style (whether on a PC equipped bike or on a conventional cranks), you'll recruit your hamstrings more....they'll get relatively stronger than what they are now relative to your quads (simply because you are using them more), so you will have to keep them supple and also watch out that you don't actually lose any quad strength, which is why I am on the mixed usage model after spending the first 18 month exclusively on PC's.

Dev
Last edited by: devashish paul: Mar 18, 07 19:24
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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"this is because when you pedal PC style, lots of your weight is supported by the saddle instead of the legs, so you "sink plower".
In Reply To:
[/quote]If you make more power won't less weight be on the seat ??
I guess I just don't get it


Thom
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [cheyou] [ In reply to ]
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Only if all your power is created on the downstroke, the precise act that PCs prevent through requiring you to also pull your pedal up.
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Peter, good luck on your journey. I'm on my 4th year since starting using PC's. My saddle is also somewhat lower than when I started (around 7.5mm), and as Chad said, part of this is because when you pedal PC style, lots of your weight is supported by the saddle instead of the legs, so you "sink slower"....but as you mentioned, do watch those tight hamstrings. I'm not saying that PC's will make them tighter (it is all individual), but as you start riding PC style (whether on a PC equipped bike or on a conventional cranks), you'll recruit your hamstrings more....they'll get relatively stronger than what they are now relative to your quads (simply because you are using them more), so you will have to keep them supple and also watch out that you don't actually lose any quad strength, which is why I am on the mixed usage model after spending the first 18 month exclusively on PC's.

Dev

This is interesting to me and the first time I have heard this but it is backwards so I find this extremely interesting.

It seems to me that if one sinks lower in the saddle when on PC's that one would have to raise the saddle to maintain the same relationship of the hips to the pedals. So, instead it seems that PC's are uncovering something else abut bike fit that goes against the "common knowledge" of what is "best" or not.

Peter seems to think he is putting less stress on his damaged hamstrings. What do you think of this Dev? Or, do you have any other thoughts?

Frank

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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Frank, I think you sink lower, but you also need to be lower to use the hamstrings well (pushing on back of shoe with heal from ~ 5 O'clock to 9 O'Clock). If you do some hamstring curls, you really engage with power not at full extension, but once there is a bit more of a bend to the legs....or at least this is what I feel. With standard cranks, you don't need to to really work that hard with hamstrings early in the upstroke...just hammer harder with the quads to get that recovery leg to pop up. I think that is why when you ride PC style, you'll naturally opt for a lower saddle height. So a combination of sinking on the seat and wanting to engage the hamstrings more seems to result in the lower seat position. I do agree, that the lower seat position results in less strain on the hamstrings, but it also closes the hip angle, which seems like it would be counterintuitive to PC pedalling....where you'd want to theoretically opt for the highest possible seat position to open the hip angle...instead, I think you'll find most PC pedallers opting for the lower seat postion and use the hamstrings more to generate enough angular momentum to keep the pedal/foot combination moving all the way around the circle so that the hip flexor work from 9 to 12 O'Clock is minimzed.

PS...I can't spell lower!!!
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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It may have something to do with utilizine the shins more than with normal cranks. I find that contracting the shin muscles on the upstroke is a more comfortable thing when the foot is dorsiflexed somewhat. In order to do that earlier (pull up with the shins in a dorsiflexed position), you need to have the saddle lower than most people who "toe down" would. Just a thought.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Not me, just as the company recommends, I am much more comfortable with a slightly higher seat height on my PCs.

Thanks, Chris
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [lakerfan] [ In reply to ]
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I also think it depend on your position at the begining. If you're right, too low or too high....
With PC it's more difficult to pass the high dead point (I don't know the word in english) if you are too low and it's more demanding on your hamstring (and you can be hurt) if you're too high at the low dead point because you pull to bring your leg up (it's not the other leg who help .....)
Also like Paul say you "sink" more with PC but not only because all the weight is on the saddle but also because when you pull with your hamstring you add some weight on your bottom because it's your fixed point. (Sorry I hope it's clear .... )

-----------------------------------------
Joel Steve
Fitter for the French Triathlon Federation
Fitter for Arkea Samsic Pro Cycling Team
Fitter for AG2R Pro Cycling Team
Last edited by: Joël: Mar 19, 07 15:04
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Re: Open Letter to PowerCranks [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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When I started on my PC's a few months ago, I didn't have to lower my seat at all, but I do ride a Softride, so I think I was finally fully weighting the beam for the first time, so I may have been 1-2 cm lower vs. traditional cranks. The only limiting factor I have noticed is my hip flexors on any ride, not my hamstrings. To your point regarding hip angle, I did notice that if I wanted to attempt to get into the aerobars, I had to raise my handlebars considerably. It's still tough to ride aero on my trainer, but I've probably raised my aerobars easily over 10cm.




There are three kinds of people, those who can count, and those who can't.
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